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Post by kris on Nov 22, 2016 12:01:53 GMT
Yea I heard about all that, but isn't that capitalism in action? I thought you are is supporter of captilism, oh no of course not when its in your backyard. No that is not capitalism in action. That is being a bully and expecting to get your way regardless of the law just because you are rich.
Anyway I am a supporter of capitalism. So are you, you perhaps just don't realise it. What is the alternative? Just about the only country where capitalism isn't in operation is North Korea. Fancy going to live there, do you? Everywhere else that tried it, failed miserably, eg Cambodia's killing fields, China's Mao era, Russia's Stalinist era etc etc.
I would argue that mr trump is the perfect example of where unbridled capitalism leads. He is top of the capitalist pyramid as it where. So how can you not like him. In a way he mirrors exactly the situation on the canals. He is the head of a corporation,so he protects and promotes that corporations interests. Even if this means trampling on little people to achieve the ends. This is exactly what Crt are doing, you support Crt in their law breaking but not trump. Um it seems a little bit like hypocrisy to me. But what would I know I'm the victim of a comprehensive education.
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Post by kris on Nov 22, 2016 12:05:05 GMT
No that is not capitalism in action. That is being a bully and expecting to get your way regardless of the law just because you are rich.
Anyway I am a supporter of capitalism. So are you, you perhaps just don't realise it. What is the alternative? Just about the only country where capitalism isn't in operation is North Korea. Fancy going to live there, do you? Everywhere else that tried it, failed miserably, eg Cambodia's killing fields, China's Mao era, Russia's Stalinist era etc etc.
Money makes the world go around... Actaully capitalism (or greed) is speeding up the end of humanity. I'm sure the world will continue going around though. Happy Christmas. dont you mean happy consumermass.
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Post by JohnV on Nov 22, 2016 12:12:17 GMT
No that is not capitalism in action. That is being a bully and expecting to get your way regardless of the law just because you are rich.
Anyway I am a supporter of capitalism. So are you, you perhaps just don't realise it. What is the alternative? Just about the only country where capitalism isn't in operation is North Korea. Fancy going to live there, do you? Everywhere else that tried it, failed miserably, eg Cambodia's killing fields, China's Mao era, Russia's Stalinist era etc etc.
But what would I know I'm the victim of a comprehensive education. You mean you are one of Mrs Thatcher's incomprehensibles ? www.theguardian.com/education/2013/apr/15/margaret-thatcher-education-legacy-gove
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 12:25:22 GMT
I'm shocked. Nobody said 'Bah humbug'.
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Post by kris on Nov 22, 2016 12:37:36 GMT
that sounds about right John.
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Post by PaulG2 on Nov 22, 2016 15:09:25 GMT
The TPP, Nick, is more of a corporate rights agreement than it is a trade agreement. Under the TPP, any corporation can sue any government if that government passes any laws that might result in a decrease of trade or profits. So, for example, if the US enacts environmental laws that end up decreasing Acme Widgets International profits because AWI has to quit polluting our air, AWI can sue the US in one of the tribunals. The suits don't take place in government courts, they take place in tribunals that consist of people appointed by the corporations to hear such matters. Yes that's the kind of thing I was thinking of. So is the TPP generally disliked by the American electorate? You seem to be giving the "American electorate" credit for the ability to think. That's your first mistake. The right wing in America was against the TPP for the simple reason that Obama supported it. The left essentially remained quiet about TPP because they didn't want to criticize Obama. Both reactions were purely emotional and required no "thinking" whatsoever. Proving the premise that even a broken clock can be right once in a while, Trump has announced that he will not approve the TPP. If he means what he says, that effectively kills the deal.
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 22, 2016 15:34:59 GMT
Will Trump be cleaning up the USA's nuclear waste sitting on the bottom of the Pacific Ocean? Nope.
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Post by Delta9 on Nov 22, 2016 15:46:48 GMT
Yes that's the kind of thing I was thinking of. So is the TPP generally disliked by the American electorate? The right wing in America was against the TPP for the simple reason that Obama supported it. The left essentially remained quiet about TPP because they didn't want to criticize Obama. The left didn't remain quiet about it at all. They were strongly against it too.
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Post by PaulG2 on Nov 22, 2016 16:35:34 GMT
The right wing in America was against the TPP for the simple reason that Obama supported it. The left essentially remained quiet about TPP because they didn't want to criticize Obama. The left didn't remain quiet about it at all. They were strongly against it too. As much as I hate to categorize people... There were many organizations, intellectuals, economists and politicians on the left that spoke out against the TPP, but Nick asked about the electorate. A majority of the American electorate doesn't know what the "D.C." in Washington D.C. stands for, let alone what a TPP is. Somewhere between one to two million people signed petitions and such against the TPP. In the context of roughly 120 million left-leaning eligible voters, that's not really a "strong" response. Breitbart.com is a racist, alt.right website, and I'm loathe to reference them, but, if you look at the photo in this link, all those organizations named on the boxes of petitions are leftist ("progressive" here) or left-leaning. I, along with a lot of other people, signed the anti-TPP petitions that those organizations were circulating, so, even though their may have been 2 million total signatures on all those petitions, that doesn't necessarily mean that 2 million people signed the petitions. The total is arguably much fewer than that.
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Post by smileypete on Nov 22, 2016 17:01:31 GMT
Yea I heard about all that, but isn't that capitalism in action? I thought you are is supporter of captilism, oh no of course not when its in your backyard. No that is not capitalism in action. That is being a bully and expecting to get your way regardless of the law just because you are rich.
Anyway I am a supporter of capitalism. So are you, you perhaps just don't realise it. What is the alternative? Just about the only country where capitalism isn't in operation is North Korea. Fancy going to live there, do you? Everywhere else that tried it, failed miserably, eg Cambodia's killing fields, China's Mao era, Russia's Stalinist era etc etc.
They're all dictatorships, so it really only illustrates that dictatorships often fail miserably. I s'pose the poster child for unbridled socialism would be Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, but he was populist just like Trump. OTOH arguably Bush and Bliar caused a lot more death and suffering in Iraq than Chavez ever did in his country, particularly for causing a power vacuum that helped the rise of ISIS and more death and suffering to this day and years to come no doubt.
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Post by kris on Nov 23, 2016 9:05:51 GMT
No that is not capitalism in action. That is being a bully and expecting to get your way regardless of the law just because you are rich.
Anyway I am a supporter of capitalism. So are you, you perhaps just don't realise it. What is the alternative? Just about the only country where capitalism isn't in operation is North Korea. Fancy going to live there, do you? Everywhere else that tried it, failed miserably, eg Cambodia's killing fields, China's Mao era, Russia's Stalinist era etc etc.
They're all dictatorships, so it really only illustrates that dictatorships often fail miserably. I s'pose the poster child for unbridled socialism would be Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, but he was populist just like Trump. OTOH arguably Bush and Bliar caused a lot more death and suffering in Iraq than Chavez ever did in his country, particularly for causing a power vacuum that helped the rise of ISIS and more death and suffering to this day and years to come no doubt. nicks ignoring this thread now because he has been proven wrong. He's probably sulking somewhere.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 23, 2016 9:52:27 GMT
They're all dictatorships, so it really only illustrates that dictatorships often fail miserably. I s'pose the poster child for unbridled socialism would be Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, but he was populist just like Trump. OTOH arguably Bush and Bliar caused a lot more death and suffering in Iraq than Chavez ever did in his country, particularly for causing a power vacuum that helped the rise of ISIS and more death and suffering to this day and years to come no doubt. nicks ignoring this thread now because he has been proven wrong. He's probably sulking somewhere. No I just don't have anything more to say. There is no point in arguing with people who have massive chips on their shoulders and as to the OP, the TPP is of no direct concern to us in the UK. Anyway I'm too busy on the NHS thread trying to counter the right wing populist xenophobia.
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Post by JohnV on Nov 23, 2016 15:59:25 GMT
nicks ignoring this thread now because he has been proven wrong. He's probably sulking somewhere. No I just don't have anything more to say. There is no point in arguing with people who have massive chips on their shoulders and as to the OP, the TPP is of no direct concern to us in the UK. Anyway I'm too busy on the NHS thread trying to counter the right wing populist xenophobia.
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Post by kris on Nov 23, 2016 16:16:22 GMT
nicks ignoring this thread now because he has been proven wrong. He's probably sulking somewhere. No I just don't have anything more to say. There is no point in arguing with people who have massive chips on their shoulders and as to the OP, the TPP is of no direct concern to us in the UK. Anyway I'm too busy on the NHS thread trying to counter the right wing populist xenophobia. at least you know when your beat Nick.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 23, 2016 16:19:38 GMT
No I just don't have anything more to say. There is no point in arguing with people who have massive chips on their shoulders and as to the OP, the TPP is of no direct concern to us in the UK. Anyway I'm too busy on the NHS thread trying to counter the right wing populist xenophobia. at least you know when your beat Nick. What was the question/game/battle?
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