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Post by Clinton Cool on Nov 22, 2016 22:52:20 GMT
OK those from EU countries don't need to pay because of the reciprocal agreement.
I've heard dissenting voices. Overtly it's been "there aren't enough staff" or: "we are health workers, not debt collectors".
I doubt there's anywhere else in the world where a foreigner can rock up and demand top quality treatment and be given it, paid for by the tax payer of the country he or she chooses. No questions, go home, cured.
It's very nice from the humanitarian outlook. Seriously though, can anyone seriously say that attempting to stop British tax payers funding the health needs of anyone in the world who can afford the flight, and a visitor visa, is a bad thing? Are those of us who think this is freeloading, and should be stopped, a group of with cold hearts, maybe racist, or perhaps just a bunch of bigots?
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Post by bodger on Nov 22, 2016 23:02:00 GMT
never understood why your NI number is not used at hospital admissions desks.
they do ask for your GP details, I don't know what happens if you can't provide such details.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 22, 2016 23:02:20 GMT
I think there's a few things to consider:
How much of an issue is this actually, ie what proportion of NHS spending is for foreigners from beyond the EU? If it is only a very small percentage, then introducing systems to check eligibility may end up costing more than they save.
Let's say that someone from far afield is here in holiday. They get ill. They claim to have travel insurance so presumably they get treated? But then someone has to go through the rigmarole of getting the money back from some insurance company on the other side of the world. Or do we say that they have to pay by credit card first, before we turn on the defibrillator?
And what about someone from the other side of the world who thinks they are healthy so doesn't bother with health insurance, but then gets acutely ill or is in an accident? Do we just leave them to die in the street?
Finally there are perhaps a few with chronic illnesses who deliberately come to the UK for free treatment, but just how much does this happen?
It all sounds a bit Daily Mail to me.
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Post by peterboat on Nov 22, 2016 23:21:24 GMT
Some very simple operations can cost 60k plus and we are not doing ops to some of our own taxpayers because we dont have the money when does it stop? also what if it was Jeff?
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 22, 2016 23:26:52 GMT
Some very simple operations can cost 60k plus and we are not doing ops to some of our own taxpayers because we dont have the money when does it stop? also what if it was Jeff? I see you've been reading the DM again! Anyway they don't come this far north, it's too cold.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 23:39:06 GMT
Friends recently had visitors from America.
Whilst over here, the wife fell and fractured her knee.
She was admitted to hospital for treatment, and within four days was able to fly home to continue her recovery, believing the NHS to be the envy of the world, rightly in my view.
Would anyone really want to see treatment refused in these circumstances?
Rog
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 1:07:06 GMT
Friends recently had visitors from America. Whilst over here, the wife fell and fractured her knee. She was admitted to hospital for treatment, and within four days was able to fly home to continue her recovery, believing the NHS to be the envy of the world, rightly in my view. Would anyone really want to see treatment refused in these circumstances? Rog Or another way to look at it is.. If you were a doctor or nurse involved in a plane crash on a desert island, would you withold treatment because the patient has no cash?
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Post by phil70 on Nov 23, 2016 1:15:10 GMT
Based on a TV news report the amount that Britain pays out to foreign countries for treatment of out own amounts to(I think) circa £350 million while only manage to recoup about a tenth of this, with huge amounts which are not recovered. Nobody is suggesting that emergency treatment is withheld till a credit card is flashed but what has been suggested is that health tourists who come for elective treatment should cough up, quite rightly so in my book. Phil
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 5:27:03 GMT
Based on a TV news report the amount that Britain pays out to foreign countries for treatment of out own amounts to(I think) circa £350 million while only manage to recoup about a tenth of this, with huge amounts which are not recovered. Nobody is suggesting that emergency treatment is withheld till a credit card is flashed but what has been suggested is that health tourists who come for elective treatment should cough up, quite rightly so in my book. Phil I would imagine it's difficult to sift out the piss takers (as is always the case).
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Post by patty on Nov 23, 2016 6:07:15 GMT
Years ago this was a problem in the hospital I worked..ask for GP's name and they allege just moved in..ask for address and yeah one would materialise but very difficult to actually check...then in some cases their 'friends' would go on magpie moments around the wards..security couldn't deal effectively at night...we were so busy we didn't have time to chase up addresses and chase away those who came to.. ok so it wasn't lots of people but multiply in other hospitals and it mounts up If foreign visitors knew that before treatment they had to produce ID..that it was set in stone...it could weed out some of the opportunists... When stuff is easy people jump on the band wagon..make it tough they'll not stay for the ride.
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Post by Telemachus on Nov 23, 2016 7:55:34 GMT
So what happens to people born and brought up in the UK who have fallen on hard times and are the dregs of society, homeless, tramps, mentally ill etc with no form of paper ID or address. Presumably we just let them die?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 8:41:33 GMT
I doubt there's anywhere else in the world where a foreigner can rock up and demand top quality treatment and be given it, paid for by the tax payer of the country he or she chooses. No questions, go home, cured. That's exactly what happened when I was hospitalised after a bike accident at a race circuit in Portugal - an entirely self inflicted injury, they never even asked to see my passport.
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Post by bodger on Nov 23, 2016 8:57:55 GMT
Based on a TV news report the amount that Britain pays out to foreign countries for treatment of out own amounts to(I think) circa £350 million while only manage to recoup about a tenth of this, with huge amounts which are not recovered. Nobody is suggesting that emergency treatment is withheld till a credit card is flashed but what has been suggested is that health tourists who come for elective treatment should cough up, quite rightly so in my book. Phil There is, or should be, a world of difference between the admissions procedure for an emergency case and a typical elective procedure. In the second case I would expect the patient to be referred to a consultant. I cannot get a referral except from my GP. How would a health tourist get such a referral? In any case, the typical time span for getting such treatment (for example a hip replacement which I have had) allows plenty of time for the consultant's secretary to check the entitlement of the patient to such treatment. Health tourists should have to pay. Emergency care should be free, and the cost recouped through the existing system where possible.
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Post by bodger on Nov 23, 2016 9:05:41 GMT
So what happens to people born and brought up in the UK who have fallen on hard times and are the dregs of society, homeless, tramps, mentally ill etc with no form of paper ID or address. Presumably we just let them die? Nobody said that, but if foreigners knew they would be asked for ID it would put off many of the spongers. It cannot be that difficult for at least one person in the line of clerks, nurses and doctors that see you before you get treatment to identify most people who are clearly foreign, or likely to be foreign, from their behaviour and language, and if they have no ID then alarm bells should be ringing. Having spent half my lifetime managing and administering staff and resources (albeit in an entirely different field) in many different countries, setting down clear guidelines to be followed while performing their jobs, I would not find it difficult to require my team to query patients who may not be eligible, and ring the alarm bell when needed. Isn't the whole matter about staff motivation and training?
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Post by phil70 on Nov 23, 2016 9:08:41 GMT
So what happens to people born and brought up in the UK who have fallen on hard times and are the dregs of society, homeless, tramps, mentally ill etc with no form of paper ID or address. Presumably we just let them die? Not at all, the issue is with "Health Tourists" those that come specifically for ELECTIVE TREATMENT not emergency treatment. There are huge numbers that come here to give birth, have dental treatment, bariactric surgery etc etc. These are not emergency procedures' Phil
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