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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 15:58:05 GMT
I recently had the use of a Firefox Gallery 5 stove. It looks great on paper but the primary air and air-wash controls do not close effectively so it is impossible to slow the burn rate down to a decent minimum. So, I would not buy a stove on spec alone, I would want to see it in action or get some trusted reviews/opinions.
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Post by smileypete on Jan 2, 2017 17:44:20 GMT
I recently had the use of a Firefox Gallery 5 stove. It looks great on paper but the primary air and air-wash controls do not close effectively so it is impossible to slow the burn rate down to a decent minimum. So, I would not buy a stove on spec alone, I would want to see it in action or get some trusted reviews/opinions. Also helps to understand the strengths and weaknesses of different designs. I'd expect a rotary control to be able to seal better than a sliding one, but door seals shouldn't be overlooked either.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Jan 2, 2017 22:28:15 GMT
I don't get this efficiency thing. The wood, or coal, or whatever you burn (rubber?) gives off a certain amount of heat. Some of it goes up through the chimney to be lost to cause global warming and climate change. The rest of it is either radiated into the boat or stored within either the fabric of the stove itself or any fire bricks that might be fitted, to be radiated into the boat later on. So to put it simply the heat either goes into the boat or into the atmosphere.
How can one stove be more efficient than another, am I being thick?
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 2, 2017 22:43:29 GMT
I don't get this efficiency thing. The wood, or coal, or whatever you burn (rubber?) gives off a certain amount of heat. Some of it goes up through the chimney to be lost to cause global warming and climate change. The rest of it is either radiated into the boat or stored within either the fabric of the stove itself or any fire bricks that might be fitted, to be radiated into the boat later on. So to put it simply the heat either goes into the boat or into the atmosphere. How can one stove be more efficient than another, am I being thick? You've pretty much answered your own question. Some heat goes into the room, some heat goes up the chimney. But that ratio is not fixed and so those stoves that manage to put out more heat into the room and less up the chimney are of course more efficient. Things like baffle plates help to extract more heat from the combustion and send it to the room, mechanisms to keep the firebox temperature up and thus require less air flow through the stove likewise.
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Post by peterboat on Jan 3, 2017 0:11:40 GMT
My Rayburn is ticking over, oven at 150 degrees c, hotplate hot, flue you can put your hand on it and hold it there room comfortable = most of heat going into room
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Post by Clinton Cool on Jan 3, 2017 13:16:27 GMT
I suppose if you made the inside the boat bit of the flue into a zig zig shape more heat would go into the boat rather than outside. Who cares though? If it's a bit cold put more rubber on the fire. Simples!
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Post by JohnV on Jan 3, 2017 13:26:18 GMT
Too cool a flue can reduce the "draw". Like most things there needs to be a happy medium
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Post by tadworth on Jan 3, 2017 14:57:11 GMT
I suppose if you made the inside the boat bit of the flue into a zig zig shape more heat would go into the boat rather than outside. Who cares though? If it's a bit cold put more rubber on the fire. Simples! You can fit a heat exchanger into the flue, more common in the USA, imagine a radiator made of tubes. I fiitted a 1 mm stainless flue to my stove, only because i had some offcuts lying around, but i noticed the difference immediately, it radiates a lot more heat than the usual thick steel flue pipe. The way the fuel is burnt leads to its efficiency, a state of the art gasifier wood stove with preheated secondary combustion is more effecient than a basic Morso Squirrel for instance.
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Post by smileypete on Jan 4, 2017 11:16:16 GMT
I don't get this efficiency thing. The wood, or coal, or whatever you burn (rubber?) gives off a certain amount of heat. Some of it goes up through the chimney to be lost to cause global warming and climate change. The rest of it is either radiated into the boat or stored within either the fabric of the stove itself or any fire bricks that might be fitted, to be radiated into the boat later on. So to put it simply the heat either goes into the boat or into the atmosphere. How can one stove be more efficient than another, am I being thick? You've pretty much answered your own question. Some heat goes into the room, some heat goes up the chimney. But that ratio is not fixed and so those stoves that manage to put out more heat into the room and less up the chimney are of course more efficient. Things like baffle plates help to extract more heat from the combustion and send it to the room, mechanisms to keep the firebox temperature up and thus require less air flow through the stove likewise. Trouble is the baffled(?) stoves don't always play well with a top entry flue, where the soot can pile up unseen on top of the baffle plate and even eventually block the flue.
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Post by smileypete on Jan 4, 2017 11:24:43 GMT
Too cool a flue can reduce the "draw". Like most things there needs to be a happy medium Likewise a single skin flue that's too long to maintain a decent temperature, though the flue on a typical narrowboat should be relatively short. If the draft and flue temperature is a bit marginal on a boat stove with a single skin flue, there's exhaust wrapping kits that should insulate the flue some and possibly help avoid the need to replace it.
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Post by JohnV on Jan 4, 2017 11:26:58 GMT
On my woodburner the baffle plate is comparatively low in the stove, sloped and made of firebricks in a frame. This causes the flue gasses to recirculate and, in effect get burnt twice. The second burn extracting even more calories out of the wood fuel, burning CO and other flammable vapours that normally go up the flue. Makes for much higher efficiency but AFAIK only works on true log burners.
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Post by smileypete on Jan 4, 2017 11:44:31 GMT
On my woodburner the baffle plate is comparatively low in the stove, sloped and made of firebricks in a frame. This causes the flue gasses to recirculate and, in effect get burnt twice. The second burn extracting even more calories out of the wood fuel, burning CO and other flammable vapours that normally go up the flue. Makes for much higher efficiency but AFAIK only works on true log burners. Out of interest what stove and flue type is it, and how does the secondary air work?
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Post by JohnV on Jan 4, 2017 12:56:36 GMT
The stove is made by Tradition (who I think disappeared about 15 or 16 years ago) 6' of 6" single wall flue inside and outside home made double walled about 7' tall
The only air intake is a small vent above the door (sliding shutter adjustment) which is slightly higher than the level of the baffle. when the hot fumes hit the main baffle (the firebrick one) they are directed partly toward the front of the stove and a second steel plate baffle and partly up to the flue. the second baffle mixes the hot air with fresh air drawn in through the vent and is directed downward to the fire bed. The stove was the only means of heating Sabina in the early days and it used to throw out an incredible amount of heat on full but on low it would smoulder for up to 18 hours with the outside of the stove being cool enough to put your hand on. (large firebed about 18" x12"
Just been re-reading my description and it is a bit hard to follow ..... I will try and sit down this evening and draw a diagram and post it ..... that might be clearer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 16:38:44 GMT
Burley claim to have the most efficient stoves at 90%. I've noticed on less well-made stoves that the primary air can not be closed 100% because the sliding shutter is a rattling fit. Excess cold air going into the fire will reduce the efficiency. the Burley has a fine stainless steel baffle which traps any soot and burns it off. A tornado effect from secondary air ensures that the smoke is burnt as well. I have no connection with Burley or any dealers.
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Post by tadworth on Jan 4, 2017 19:06:00 GMT
Burley claim to have the most efficient stoves at 90%. I've noticed on less well-made stoves that the primary air can not be closed 100% because the sliding shutter is a rattling fit. Excess cold air going into the fire will reduce the efficiency. the Burley has a fine stainless steel baffle which traps any soot and burns it off. A tornado effect from secondary air ensures that the smoke is burnt as well. I have no connection with Burley or any dealers. They are the kind of stove i was talking about, the Burley is wood burning only, but the high effeciency burn is under ideal circumstances of a small amount of well seasoned fuel burning hot, filling up the firebox and letting it tick over is not applicable.
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