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Post by smileypete on May 2, 2016 17:21:22 GMT
Welcome carlt
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 1:50:03 GMT
Has anyone summoned Carlt to this thread? He didn't 'stop' the discussion of religion on CWF though did he? If those who dismiss religious beliefs were so confident, why feel the need to censor the subject? Why would I want to 'stop' the discussion of one of my favourite topics of discussion? I do not dismiss religious beliefs either...Everyone is entitled to believe what they want and the belief in a omnipotent, all merciful creator who will demonstrate his mercy by condemning me to an eternity of torment in the fiery pits of hell for committing the grave sin of not believing in him is no less valid than the belief in fairies, elves, hobbits and Father Xmas. I treat all irrational superstitions with the same respect due to them and respect anyone's right to believe the stories are true.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 3, 2016 4:18:24 GMT
Sorry - my choice of words and thought processing. I meant you are very good at nailing Religion on the head.
I'm not as adept a wordsmith as you or iconoclast (and others), and I do tend to jump around a lot in conversation.
Generally I dismiss religion(s) entirely and try to concentrate on what I should really be getting on with.
My Bibles are A.W.Wainwright's seven Guides to the Lakeland Fells & Pearson's Canal Companions.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 5:53:19 GMT
He didn't 'stop' the discussion of religion on CWF though did he? If those who dismiss religious beliefs were so confident, why feel the need to censor the subject? Why would I want to 'stop' the discussion of one of my favourite topics of discussion? I do not dismiss religious beliefs either...Everyone is entitled to believe what they want and the belief in a omnipotent, all merciful creator who will demonstrate his mercy by condemning me to an eternity of torment in the fiery pits of hell for committing the grave sin of not believing in him is no less valid than the belief in fairies, elves, hobbits and Father Xmas. I treat all irrational superstitions with the same respect due to them and respect anyone's right to believe the stories are true. It was NF who implied you had succeeded to stop discussion on the subject through debate. I was just pointing out you hadn't. I see you still claim repect for peoples beliefs but in the next breath ridicule them by comparing God with fairies, elves erc. Nothing has changed then? BTW, did you read all of this thread before jumping in? If you did, you'd see where I currently am on the subject. I suspect your views are very similar to Mr Fry.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 6:06:18 GMT
I was thinking if we are going to discuss God then it would be interesting to see who/what everyone thinks God is. If we aren't discussing the same God then it gets tricky...as we have found throughout history.
For example we could just discuss Father Christmas.
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Post by loafer on May 3, 2016 9:11:07 GMT
But we all did that as kids. Maybe we should have been told that God IS Father Christmas?
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 10:16:19 GMT
I see you still claim repect for peoples beliefs but in the next breath ridicule them by comparing God with fairies, elves erc. Nothing has changed then? Why should anything change? As I believe that the concept of a creator is no less ridiculous than the concept of Elves and fairies it would be hypocritical of me to accord more respect to one superstition than another. I know of people who genuinely believe in fairies and I respect their right to that belief just as much as I respect your right to believe in a supernatural creator. You however seem to place your belief on a higher pedestal than other folks'...That is disrespectful...Typical of those who claim to have faith. I respect anybody's right to believe in any superstition they like however ridiculous I may think that belief is and that is the best you'll ever get out of me.
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 10:21:42 GMT
I was thinking if we are going to discuss God then it would be interesting to see who/what everyone thinks God is. If we aren't discussing the same God then it gets tricky...as we have found throughout history. For example we could just discuss Father Christmas. There is no need to pick out one god for discussion because all gods are the same...a fiction created by humans in order to impose their moral beliefs through fear and the promise of reward or punishment.... ...just like Father Christmas only for adults so you are absolutely right...
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Post by peterboat on May 3, 2016 12:56:23 GMT
I was thinking if we are going to discuss God then it would be interesting to see who/what everyone thinks God is. If we aren't discussing the same God then it gets tricky...as we have found throughout history. For example we could just discuss Father Christmas. There is no need to pick out one god for discussion because all gods are the same...a fiction created by humans in order to impose their moral beliefs through fear and the promise of reward or punishment.... ...just like Father Christmas only for adults so you are absolutely right... But as always you cant prove what you say is right as believers cant prove they are right its finger in the wind stuff! And as I said before the number of soldiers I have seen thinking they are goners its God they are asking for help from mmmmm
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Post by naughtyfox on May 3, 2016 13:39:00 GMT
Here's a picture of a mouse in a mug of tea.
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 14:49:41 GMT
But as always you cant prove what you say is right as believers cant prove they are right its finger in the wind stuff! And as I said before the number of soldiers I have seen thinking they are goners its God they are asking for help from mmmmm But it is impossible to prove a negative and I don't have to. There is no evidence whatsoever that there is an intelligent being showing an interest in this world, whilst giving us free will, whilst allowing us to pray for miracles, whilst not interfering , whilst being all powerful, whilst being all merciful, whilst punishing us (rather excessively in my opinion) for not believing in something that there is not one iota of evidence to suggest its existence. Do you see how illogical this so-called "perfect being" is?
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Post by peterboat on May 3, 2016 14:58:28 GMT
But as always you cant prove what you say is right as believers cant prove they are right its finger in the wind stuff! And as I said before the number of soldiers I have seen thinking they are goners its God they are asking for help from mmmmm But it is impossible to prove a negative and I don't have to. There is no evidence whatsoever that there is an intelligent being showing an interest in this world, whilst giving us free will, whilst allowing us to pray for miracles, whilst not interfering , whilst being all powerful, whilst being all merciful, whilst punishing us (rather excessively in my opinion) for not believing in something that there is not one iota of evidence to suggest its existence. Do you see how illogical this so-called "perfect being" is? Back to what I said you cant prove that he doesnt exist full stop like others cant prove that he does. Given that most of the world pray to Gods of one sort or another one could say that you are in the minority..........................
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 15:06:39 GMT
Here's a picture of a mouse in a mug of tea. You do nothing but derail threads with absolute rubbish. In a thread asking if there is a God,you have gone from Gas Regulators to Cups of Tea with dead mice.Its a fucking disgrace that you feel thats permissible.It is such a chore to follow a thread from page to page and see it interrupted needlessly day after day and week after week with absolute drivel
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 15:13:41 GMT
But it is impossible to prove a negative and I don't have to. There is no evidence whatsoever that there is an intelligent being showing an interest in this world, whilst giving us free will, whilst allowing us to pray for miracles, whilst not interfering , whilst being all powerful, whilst being all merciful, whilst punishing us (rather excessively in my opinion) for not believing in something that there is not one iota of evidence to suggest its existence. Do you see how illogical this so-called "perfect being" is? Back to what I said you cant prove that he doesnt exist full stop like others cant prove that he does. Given that most of the world pray to Gods of one sort or another one could say that you are in the minority.......................... We are back to that gazing at the sky in wonderment that man has done since the beginning of time. Sort it out Peter,I got the kettle on and wanted some definitive wisdom from an old bloke like yourself before it boiled. ha ha ha
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 15:14:20 GMT
Given that most of the world pray to Gods of one sort or another one could say that you are in the minority.......................... Given that the majority of the world's population who pray to gods in one sort or another reside in developing countries and religion is in decline in the developed world I would suggest that as humanity evolves there is less need for a supernatural crutch to lean on. If your argument for the existence of god relies on the spread of Catholicism in poor countries and their insistence on not using contraception and the steady rise of Islam largely through coercion then I can't see how any rational person would welcome such a god. The numbers game does not stand up when you look at developed nations with secular, rational education systems rather than developing nations with education provided by clerics and missionaries.
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