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Post by bills on May 3, 2016 15:18:30 GMT
Here's a picture of a mouse in a mug of tea. You do nothing but derail threads with absolute rubbish. In a thread asking if there is a God,you have gone from Gas Regulators to Cups of Tea with dead mice.Its a fucking disgrace that you feel thats permissible.It is such a chore to follow a thread from page to page and see it interrupted needlessly day after day and week after week with absolute drivel Speak for yourself. I found the picture an amusing interlude in an otherwise completely predictable thread.
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 15:23:36 GMT
And as I said before the number of soldiers I have seen thinking they are goners its God they are asking for help from mmmmm The "No atheists in a foxhole" argument doesn't really prove anything except logic and reason tend to go out of the window when all seems hopeless. If there is a being that can magically get a soldier out of a foxhole wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that that same all powerful loving being wouldn't have put the soldier in there in the first place?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 15:27:39 GMT
You do nothing but derail threads with absolute rubbish. In a thread asking if there is a God,you have gone from Gas Regulators to Cups of Tea with dead mice.Its a fucking disgrace that you feel thats permissible.It is such a chore to follow a thread from page to page and see it interrupted needlessly day after day and week after week with absolute drivel Speak for yourself. I found the picture an amusing interlude in an otherwise completely predictable thread. If only it was this thread, but its almost every single one.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 3, 2016 15:31:41 GMT
Speak for yourself. I found the picture an amusing interlude in an otherwise completely predictable thread. I merely noticed that people seemed to be at work and there had been a lull in this thread so I thought I'd chiv it up a bit. All things bright and beautiful, All creatures great and small, All things wise and wonderful: The Lord God made them all. That includes swimming mice.
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 15:50:16 GMT
If there is a being that can magically get a soldier out of a foxhole wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that that same all powerful loving being wouldn't have put the soldier in there in the first place? but God didn't put the soldier in the foxhole either...duty did because the soldier signed up in the first place, and if he was forced into it through no wish of his own and believes God will save him then God will...but it doesn't necessarily mean it will save his life, but his soul. That would of course require one to believe that there is a "soul" that continues to exist after death. As an atheist I believe that wasting time asking a mythical figure to save a hypothetical part of me that has no evidence for its existence is quite simply a waste of time and effort. The afterlife is there for those who cannot imagine themselves not existing. I have no knowledge of existing before birth so I am quite capable of accepting that I nor some indefinable part of "I" will no longer exist when my body dies.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 15:54:09 GMT
Given that most of the world pray to Gods of one sort or another one could say that you are in the minority.......................... Given that the majority of the world's population who pray to gods in one sort or another reside in developing countries and religion is in decline in the developed world I would suggest that as humanity evolves there is less need for a supernatural crutch to lean on. If your argument for the existence of god relies on the spread of Catholicism in poor countries and their insistence on not using contraception and the steady rise of Islam largely through coercion then I can't see how any rational person would welcome such a god. The numbers game does not stand up when you look at developed nations with secular, rational education systems rather than developing nations with education provided by clerics and missionaries. I have an Indian partner who originally came from Goa,female by the way,I hate that word partner. Anyway we have been together years and when I first met her I thought she must be Hindu,but no Goa was a separate country from India until the sixties and of course was a Portugese Colony. Her and all her family were catholic and can I say ultra catholic,which was the way the Portugese enforced their control.You also see the same thing when these Black Anglican Bishops turn up in Britain protesting about women Bishops and Gay Clergy,their indoctrination was so complete that changing Western Values have left them almost a separate division.This indoctrination has little to do with the existence of a Supreme Being.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 16:13:24 GMT
I was thinking if we are going to discuss God then it would be interesting to see who/what everyone thinks God is. If we aren't discussing the same God then it gets tricky...as we have found throughout history. For example we could just discuss Father Christmas. There is no need to pick out one god for discussion because all gods are the same...a fiction created by humans in order to impose their moral beliefs through fear and the promise of reward or punishment.... ...just like Father Christmas only for adults so you are absolutely right... Right about what? You likened God with Father Christmas...
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 16:24:22 GMT
There is no need to pick out one god for discussion because all gods are the same...a fiction created by humans in order to impose their moral beliefs through fear and the promise of reward or punishment.... ...just like Father Christmas only for adults so you are absolutely right... Right about what? You likened God with Father Christmas... No you did... I was just agreeing with you. I see no difference between Santa and any other mythical being and, in my opinion, Jesus is just Santa for grown-ups.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 16:30:39 GMT
If there is a being that can magically get a soldier out of a foxhole wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that that same all powerful loving being wouldn't have put the soldier in there in the first place? This sentence lacks any basic logic. Most of what happens to us is through human choice or intervention. Surely an atheist such as yourself can't believe otherwise.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 16:40:17 GMT
Everyone is entitled to believe what they want and the belief in a omnipotent, all merciful creator who will demonstrate his mercy by condemning me to an eternity of torment in the fiery pits of hell for committing the grave sin of not believing in him is no less valid than the belief in fairies, elves, hobbits and Father Xmas. There you go Carl. Your likening God to Father Christmas not mine... BTW, did you actually read the thread before you jumped in? Just asking because I'm not sure if you are open to debate or just want to preach from your atheist pulpit.
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 16:40:57 GMT
This sentence lacks any basic logic. Most of what happens to us is through human choice or intervention. Surely an atheist such as yourself can't believe otherwise. I don't believe otherwise. I was pointing out the ridiculousness of someone praying for a mythical being to get them out of a situation which, following their logic (or lack of it) that same mythical being, if it was truly omnipotent, would have been responsible for the situation in the first place. If this mythical creature has no influence in our lives what is the point in trying to engage with it?
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 16:46:14 GMT
There you go Carl. Your likening God to Father Christmas not mine... BTW, did you actually read the thread before you jumped in? Just asking because I'm not sure if you are open to debate or just want to preach from your atheist pulpit. Why do you attack the person,not the issue? I am responding to things you have posted without attacking you personally or mocking you. I have read the thread and I haven't "jumped in"...merely engaged in discussion. I do liken all gods to all other mythical, supernatural creatures, including Father Christmas, by the way and I don't believe it is important who compared him to god first but I am happy to take credit if it helps. I am not "preaching" either...just engaging in harmless discussion.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 16:53:05 GMT
I don't believe otherwise. I was pointing out the ridiculousness of someone praying for a mythical being to get them out of a situation which, following their logic (or lack of it) that same mythical being, if it was truly omnipotent, would have been responsible for the situation in the first place. If this mythical creature has no influence in our lives what is the point in trying to engage with it? Actually you hit the nail on the head there. Some people have found through logic that things happen through prayer (or communicating with our creator). Having this relationship isn't something to be smug about, in fact it's completely the opposite. It involves going with the flow of the bigger picture and trying to be selfless at times. It's like most things in life. If you don't try it how can you know for sure? I think some people see having a faith just as a submissive thing when it's actually more like a relationship. BTW, you know my views on religion as a whole. Religion does get used to control people but again, like most things, there is still some good and bad in it. Even the pope has said athiests can go to heaven. The important thing is to try and be nice. Not easy I know.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 16:57:56 GMT
Why do you attack the person,not the issue? I am responding to things you have posted without attacking you personally or mocking you. I have read the thread and I haven't "jumped in"...merely engaged in discussion. I do liken all gods to all other mythical, supernatural creatures, including Father Christmas, by the way and I don't believe it is important who compared him to god first but I am happy to take credit if it helps. I am not "preaching" either...just engaging in harmless discussion. Not attacking the person at all. Just defending myself from you putting words ij my mouth. Anyway, at least we are debating now.
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 17:06:35 GMT
It's like most things in life. If you don't try it how can you know for sure? I think some people see having a faith just as a submissive thing when it's actually more like a relationship. How do you know I haven't tried it. It is a well known fact that most atheists have a deeper knowledge of religion than most religious folk. Have you read the bible cover to cover? I have along with the Qu'ran, Book of Mormon, The Vedas (pretty heavy going), many buddhist texts and even a couple of L.Ron Hubbard novels.. Reaching the point where you are satisfied that there is no god involves more than just falling to one's knees claiming to have "seen the light". I have attended many religious services and studied scripture in order to arrive at my conclusions. I also spend many hours discussing religion, politics and other ideologies with one of my closest friends, a C of E vicar who has never once accused me of "preaching from my atheist pulpit".
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