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Post by jam on Mar 5, 2017 23:39:26 GMT
Thanks a lot for starting this topic Kris, I can't get enough of seeing photos of the L & L Shortboats, the very first Shortboat I ever saw in my life was the "Arthur" moored in Paris in '72 or '73, but I didn't know John Liley at the time. I hope that this topic will motivate Roy in posting more of his treasures for us to enjoy. Peter. In 1971 there were a series of articles published in 7 issues of Motor Boat & Yachting entitled 'Life with Arthur' , fortunately I have managed to (poorly) scan all of them except articles 1 and 6 as they told an interesting tale of cruising on the northern waterways through the eyes of John Liley. On the subject of shortboats I have a vague recollection of one called Edith which I had a little play on in the 1960's, someone will surely be along to tell me I am not dreaming.
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Post by peterboat on Mar 6, 2017 0:04:04 GMT
There's a nice old L&L boat round here (East London/River Lea). I think its A36. 2 cylinder Gardner in it. The od L & L boat you write about is not the A39 by chance, as I know that had a Gardner 2 LW, it was for sale for quite a while, and sold quite cheaply in the end.
She was a restaurant/trip boat in Sheffield and was replaced with a brand new build barge, I took some photos of her in 2011 when I was in Sheffield.
Peter.
I have seen her loads of times over the years unfortunately getting more and more dilapidated the idiot that owned her had to large a price on her. I was glad when she was sold so she could be saved
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Post by kris on Mar 6, 2017 6:56:58 GMT
Kris Hope you don't mind me posting a photo of two long boats moored loaded with coal for Athol Street Gas Works, Liverpool. Both were by then in the ownership of British Waterways View Attachmentafter they had purchased the Fleet of John Parke & Sons Ltd. This picture was taken on the 2nd June, 1963 and both boats were sat on the canal bed, due to a culvert breach about a mile further east. Angelo would have about 55 tons and Marco 65 tons, target weekly tonnage was 2,000 tons. I remember further back in time that A37 moored loaded going the other way where the Angelo is and A40 where Dumb Boat Marco is tied up. This would be up to 1950. i don't mind, I really like long boats too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2017 8:33:02 GMT
The od L & L boat you write about is not the A39 by chance, as I know that had a Gardner 2 LW, it was for sale for quite a while, and sold quite cheaply in the end.
She was a restaurant/trip boat in Sheffield and was replaced with a brand new build barge, I took some photos of her in 2011 when I was in Sheffield.
Peter.
I have seen her loads of times over the years unfortunately getting more and more dilapidated the idiot that owned her had to large a price on her. I was glad when she was sold so she could be saved Current owner has done a lot of work on the wooden cabin. She's looking well and cruising about with no home mooring. Engine is running lovely. Altogether a nice boat. She has had a lot of steelwork overplating over the years and apparently there is a constant leak which is difficult to trace so the bilge pump runs regularly.
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Post by peterboat on Mar 6, 2017 8:53:38 GMT
Well the previous owner did nothing on her for years, very similar to his modern boat which is looking tired. He has also given up one the arches, he was in the cafe/bar one which is good as the food was revolting!! I am glad the old boat has gone to a good owner at 20k I would have been interested myself but the screen price was over 50k if I remember, hope he gets his leak sorted soon
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Post by bargemast on Mar 6, 2017 10:35:43 GMT
Well the previous owner did nothing on her for years, very similar to his modern boat which is looking tired. He has also given up one the arches, he was in the cafe/bar one which is good as the food was revolting!! I am glad the old boat has gone to a good owner at 20k I would have been interested myself but the screen price was over 50k if I remember, hope he gets his leak sorted soon When I was in Sheffield to have a look at the A39 she did look rather scruffy (to say the least) and there was a bollard missing, clearly since quite a while, it was obvious that they weren't interested in her anymore.
The engine however must have been, and most likely still is, in perfect order, as they'd spend quite a lot of money on her not long before they'd stpped operating her.
For the Β£20.000 she was sold for, the buyers had a bargain, I would have been very happy with her for that sort of money, as I could easily enough see through the scruffiness and she her potential to become a great boat again.
Peter.
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Post by angelo1728 on Mar 9, 2017 19:21:55 GMT
M/b 'Angelo' after coal traffic ceased in 1964, eventually had a Royal connection. She was taken by sea from Liverpool to the estuary at Caernarfon and used to lay Electric cables across the River Seiont by the Castle in readiness for the Prince of Wales investiture in 1969. Her final whereabouts are unknown, one source told me she broke her back in the Menai Straits after this job finished and possibly was broken up at Port Dinorwic. A memorial sculpture was erected in the former Sheldon's Boatyard at Parbold, west of Wigan, as she was the last boat to be built there in 1927.
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Post by bargemast on Mar 10, 2017 16:19:42 GMT
M/b 'Angelo' after coal traffic ceased in 1964, eventually had a Royal connection. She was taken by sea from Liverpool to the estuary at Caernarfon and used to lay Electric cables across the River Seiont by the Castle in readiness for the Prince of Wales investiture in 1969. Her final whereabouts are unknown, one source told me she broke her back in the Menai Straits after this job finished and possibly was broken up at Port Dinorwic. A memorial sculpture was erected in the former Sheldon's Boatyard at Parbold, west of Wigan, as she was the last boat to be built there in 1927. Thanks for another bit of history Roy, but what a sad ending for good old "Angelo".
If I'm ever in the area, I will have a look at the mΓ©morial sculpture at Parbold.
Peter.
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Post by angelo1728 on Mar 14, 2017 15:15:45 GMT
Peter Two pictures of John Parke and Sons Ltd., Tugs Sulzer and Leo. Sulzer worked on the Sheffield, Doncaster, Rotherham Canal until just before the second World War, when she moved to the Liverpool end of L & L Canal and was rebuilt in the mid fifties. Leo was purposely built early fifties to accommodate my Uncle Bill, who lost all the fingers of his right hand in an accident at Maypole Tip on Leigh Branch whilst working M/b Angelo. Both pictures show them leaving Crooke Coal Tip, Shevington, Nr Wigan early 1960's
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 15:20:23 GMT
Its great to see pictures like this on the forum. Thanks.
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Post by angelo1728 on Mar 14, 2017 15:41:17 GMT
Another atmospheric photo of M/b Angelo rounding Worsley Turn by Worsley Old Hall, early 1950's. My Dad Peter looks completely cheesed off due to the long hours away from home. Uncle John is steering. In one incident at Marsland Green Coal Tip, my Dad put Angelo under the tip refused to move, the police were brought. Boat crews liked to keep their turn but the N.C.B tip regularly gave their boats priority. Note also the bucket marks on the cargo to top up their cabin coal bunker and passing boats always took their advantage
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Post by bargemast on Mar 14, 2017 16:46:39 GMT
Thank you very much for these pictures Roy, much appreciated.
Now I have a question for you, as I'd never seen the barges pulled by a small tug, but normally just by a simular motorised barge,
what sort of engine, and about how many HP's were the engines in these tugs.
Thank you very much in advance for your answer.
Peter.
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Post by kris on Mar 14, 2017 17:11:46 GMT
Thanks very much Roy for posting more of your wonderful photos.
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Post by angelo1728 on Mar 14, 2017 17:49:24 GMT
Peter Tug Sulzer although not 100% sure had a Kromhout engine while in Yorkshire and one peculiar aspect of her outdoor wheel steering was the opposite to the way you wanted to go. I almost stemmed her up near our home in Lathom. She kept that same engine until the mid 1950's, when she was revamped for my Uncle Bill with covered steering. Parke's fitted a 5 cylinder Gardner engine and she could easily tow 4 dumb barges if required. Both Tugs usually had three in tow, two would be tight up and one on a long line when light. All three would be on long lines loaded and their tonnage would be 180 tons per trip. Tug Leo also had a 4 cylinder Gardner engine was a bit lighter than the Sulzer but equally capable of towing 3/4, but the crews said she was just a little bit too light. She was built from scratch at Parkes Yard at Bankhall Liverpool in the early fifties to be used on the one mile run from Sandhills run to Athol Street Gas Works. Both Tugs worked on the Liverpool end, also on the Bridgewater from Marsland Green and Boothstown supplying Stretford Gas Works, then finally both on the Wigan Liverpool Coal run. Regards Roy
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Post by bargemast on Mar 14, 2017 19:38:22 GMT
Peter Tug Sulzer although not 100% sure had a Kromhout engine while in Yorkshire and one peculiar aspect of her outdoor wheel steering was the opposite to the way you wanted to go. I almost stemmed her up near our home in Lathom. She kept that same engine until the mid 1950's, when she was revamped for my Uncle Bill with covered steering. Parke's fitted a 5 cylinder Gardner engine and she could easily tow 4 dumb barges if required. Both Tugs usually had three in tow, two would be tight up and one on a long line when light. All three would be on long lines loaded and their tonnage would be 180 tons per trip. Tug Leo also had a 4 cylinder Gardner engine was a bit lighter than the Sulzer but equally capable of towing 3/4, but the crews said she was just a little bit too light. She was built from scratch at Parkes Yard at Bankhall Liverpool in the early fifties to be used on the one mile run from Sandhills run to Athol Street Gas Works. Both Tugs worked on the Liverpool end, also on the Bridgewater from Marsland Green and Boothstown supplying Stretford Gas Works, then finally both on the Wigan Liverpool Coal run. Regards Roy Very interesting information Roy, amazing what these small tugs managed to achief, they had to work hard to earn their living, but that's were they were made for.
The Kromhout in Tug Sulzer was that a big two-stroke version, or already one that they built under Gardners licence ?
The Gardners were definitely a good choice for such Tugs.
Peter.
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