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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 8:50:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 9:04:59 GMT
I think this could be a game changer in cities like London. If boats were brought under the clean air act (old vans have already been banned I believe) it could have a dramatic effect.
Boats are a tiny proportion but they are there and unregulated like fridge trucks.
If it helped to kickstart realistic electric drive systems for boats it'd be good news.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 9:06:25 GMT
The issue though is not the colour of the diesel which after all is only dyed but the unit that is being used to burn it. You could still preserve a price differential to the diesel types but require that (as per road engines) it is burnt in a more environmentally friendly fashion. simply saying 'we won't sell red diesel any longer' won't make a jot of deiffernce to NOX or anything else, or am I missing something?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 9:10:25 GMT
Maybe the extra cost of the fuel would encourage companies to fit new power units?
I agree with you it seems like emissions regs would be more effective and probably what will actually happen.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 9:12:28 GMT
The issue though is not the colour of the diesel which after all is only dyed but the unit that is being used to burn it. You could still preserve a price differential to the diesel types but require that (as per road engines) it is burnt in a more environmentally friendly fashion. simply saying 'we won't sell red diesel any longer' won't make a jot of deiffernce to NOX or anything else, or am I missing something? Sort of, FAME free diesel we are supplied with for our plant is supposed to be worse for the environment. Add to that the low tech high polluting engines commonly found in plant and boats. Imagine the LEZ extending to all of London's waterways, a fair few boats would be unable to comply. More so though, there have been moves to abolish any tax breaks for leisure craft fuel, this would help knock the 60/40 split on the head regardless of colour!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 9:15:45 GMT
I filled up with one of the diesel boats this week, and was chatting to Mark the proprietor.
He hopes/believes that once the Brexit negotiations are finalised (so some years away) the issue of duty on red diesel for boating will be resolved.
His view is that the government will not wish to turn away an income stream, no matter how small, so a standard rate of duty will be applied and the paperwork involved will be eased at a stroke.There are far too many boating businesses engaged with red diesel across the country to simply shut them down.
I suspect he's right. Or maybe that should be I hope he's right.
The issue with the refrigeration units is their urban location and being subsidised.
Rog
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Post by JohnV on Mar 10, 2017 9:21:09 GMT
FAME free is way safer for use on boats putting to sea. The RNLI reckon there has been a dramatic increase in boats getting into difficulties with fuel problems since the introduction of a percentage of bio into diesel.
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Post by kris on Mar 10, 2017 10:29:34 GMT
FAME free is way safer for use on boats putting to sea. The RNLI reckon there has been a dramatic increase in boats getting into difficulties with fuel problems since the introduction of a percentage of bio into diesel. That's interesting John, I believe it's up to 8% bio in diesel. This was done in the interest of making diesel cleaner.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 10:54:55 GMT
John is spot on.
My mate only buys fuel at Wisbech yacht harbour for this reason.
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Post by peterboat on Mar 10, 2017 13:24:17 GMT
Easy to sort really LPG powered fridges engine quiet and clean at a stroke plus you cant nick it!! As I have said in the past diesel is in real trouble and the hounds have been unleashed, I am converting my broads cruiser to electric solar and the whispergen to charge batteries, whispergen runs on kero so with luck I will be under the radar. Car wise cities are going to use this as an excuse to charge to visit same as London, older cars only at the moment [new diesels kill people better than old diesels because the particulate matter passes through the lungs and into the bloodstream]so I would expect those newer diesels to be banned/charged in a couple of years Boats well that is an issue London could easily charge all boats £10 per day to visit which will sort out the boats in London at one stroke
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Post by pearley on Mar 10, 2017 14:01:29 GMT
When I've visited the Birmingham Christmas Market I've often wondered why they are still using those huge diesel generators rather than providing a means to plug into the mains. Some market places have the equivalent of electricity bollards (the ones at Liverpool 1 are particularly neat, rising from the ground) so why can't all of them. And in many High Streets it's every day with burger vans, ice cream vans, etc.
Which reminds me that many years ago one of my neighbours ran an ice cream van. He used to shin up the lamp post, remove the bulb and plug the van in overnight.
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Post by Gone on Mar 10, 2017 15:40:03 GMT
Another argument why constant moorers in London should not move.......
On a more serious note, red diesel might just be banned for all uses and we all have to move onto duty paid diesel which will lead to a lot more spillage into the canal as small sellers will not be able to compete with the supermarkets and many boaters will start using jerry cans.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 16:47:30 GMT
Another argument why constant moorers in London should not move....... On a more serious note, red diesel might just be banned for all uses and we all have to move onto duty paid diesel which will lead to a lot more spillage into the canal as small sellers will not be able to compete with the supermarkets and many boaters will start using jerry cans. Bearing in mind you have to get it from a supermarket to the boat?? How many are conveniently close to the cut?? Plus some are getting quite strict about max. qualities they will sell you. We used duty paid in our latter days as boaters rather than red due to a lack of local sellers or boats, but we were leisure boaters with a car. The hassle factor alone will surely mean there will still be a market for fuel boats selling duty paid??
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Post by Gone on Mar 10, 2017 18:05:14 GMT
I guess it depends on how big the price difference is. Our local filling station is about 8p per litre more than the supermarket, so if fuel boats are 20p per litre more expensive that is going to be £16 on 4 jerry cans (80 Litres)which will be enough for many that are short of money. But I hope there are enough of us prepared to pay the extra to keep small suppliers going as I am too old to lug 100L along the tow path.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 18:16:16 GMT
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