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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 13:55:54 GMT
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Post by peterboat on Jun 16, 2017 13:58:14 GMT
And how will it help? People are dead others are homeless and the left are using it for political gain hardly the way forward
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 14:16:58 GMT
And how will it help? People are dead others are homeless and the left are using it for political gain hardly the way forward I think the entire political system in this country is unfit for purpose. It's not served the majority for a long time. Anyway you're the one who brought up political gain in this. She was just pointing out that the real figure is being hushed up...who'd want to do that?
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Post by patty on Jun 16, 2017 14:34:27 GMT
Will they ever know the real figure?..how many living there are off radar as being mums/dads/aunties etc...Im not criticising just passing comment that it may be we will never know full death toll...whatever the emphasis must be on preventing further tragedies..Little sis tells me Coventry has checked out their flats for safety issues post this fire..one hopes all will do so. If the cause is faulty electrics somewhere then obviously all electric appliances in all flats have to be checked...how many of us own a dodgy electrical gadget way past its safe use by date?
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Post by lollygagger on Jun 16, 2017 14:37:29 GMT
Starting with low death numbers then letting them slowly rise as anger subsides is standard political manipulation in every country, it's designed to negate natural reaction which is anger. Sometimes that just anger will also be belittled by describing it as "over"-reaction, which is perhaps a polite way of saying "wrong". Is it wrong? Who knows. There must be cases where it's the right thing and avoids more death. To use the tactic without thinking is wrong, but nobody would admit to using it anyway as highlighted in Snow's reaction, waffling on about identification when we all know that a dead body does not need a name in order to be counted.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 15:14:20 GMT
It's unlikely that we will ever know an exact figure for the final death toll.
About 20 years ago this estate and the surrounding areas were my 'work patch' (probably been into Grenfell Tower in excess of 100 times), whilst many of the people living there will not be the same ones the type of people living there are likely to be the same and some of them will be almost completely off the radar. The local residents know about how some people live in these towers and tolerate and/or help them, I suspect some of their anger about the lack of numbers is about the fact they don't want these people forgotten about.
Once I left that job, I ended up in another career which ended up with my writing Major Incident manuals (alongside many other things) so I do know all the protocols about reporting of deaths.
In my opinion blindly following Major Incident protocols in this specific instance isn't correct. To me and I suspect many of the local residents this feels more like a disaster and whilst I don't know much about disaster protocols I do think that they allow for rough numbers of casualties to be communicated before formal identification occurs.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Jun 16, 2017 15:49:44 GMT
The irony here is that Lily Allen vocally supports exactly the immigration policy which forced people to be crammed into dangerous monstrosities like Grenfell Tower in the first place. When she's done her bit of self-promotion for the day, it will be interesting to see how many of them she invites back to her place to doss on the floor.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 16:01:13 GMT
The irony here is that Lily Allen vocally supports exactly the immigration policy which forced people to be crammed into dangerous monstrosities like Grenfell Tower in the first place. When she's done her bit of self-promotion for the day, it will be interesting to see how many of them she invites back to her place to doss on the floor. I'm surprised how people could afford to live there, rented or owned. Are you sure it's crammed full of 'immigrants'? Maybe many of them are people who sold thier local homes to release capital and moved into the tower. Actually I'm not sure if the demographics of the tower is public information. You're right about the practice before you preach bit though. Do you know what charitable work she has been involved with?
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Post by JohnV on Jun 16, 2017 16:23:37 GMT
The young always have been revolting
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Post by JohnV on Jun 16, 2017 16:32:26 GMT
And how will it help? People are dead others are homeless and the left are using it for political gain hardly the way forward I think the entire political system in this country is unfit for purpose. It's not served the majority for a long time. Anyway you're the one who brought up political gain in this. She was just pointing out that the real figure is being hushed up...who'd want to do that? I agree with sarhello that we are unlikely to ever know the exact figure and it is very likely that there will be quite a number who will never be identified. There are so many scams going on in council accommodation. I personally know of two people who are living in illegally sublet flats (incidentally both in tower blocks in East London) just from the slight contact I have had with the system, there are people living in flats that are being sublet (sometimes by people whose rent is being paid by housing benefit) and the numbers of those resident do not always coincide with the number who are meant to be living there.
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Post by Delta9 on Jun 16, 2017 16:34:35 GMT
Is there any problem in this country that Mr Stabby won't try to blame on immigrants?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 16:40:50 GMT
I think the entire political system in this country is unfit for purpose. It's not served the majority for a long time. Anyway you're the one who brought up political gain in this. She was just pointing out that the real figure is being hushed up...who'd want to do that? I agree with sarhello that we are unlikely to ever know the exact figure and it is very likely that there will be quite a number who will never be identified. There are so many scams going on in council accommodation. I personally know of two people who are living in illegally sublet flats (incidentally both in tower blocks in East London) just from the slight contact I have had with the system, there are people living in flats that are being sublet (sometimes by people whose rent is being paid by housing benefit) and the numbers of those resident do not always coincide with the number who are meant to be living there. Take the number of bedrooms and multiply by 3 for number of occupiers might be a way to estimate so if there are 3 floors with 6 flats of say 2 bedrooms thats 100+ occupants, and it was midnight so most people would be in. being realistic.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 16:42:56 GMT
You are right that some people play the system, normally to the dis-benefit of the worst off.
When I used to spend most of my work time in areas that had a lot of 'poor' people most of my time was spent with the Sad, Mad or Bad people. The vast majority of people were Good though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 16:47:51 GMT
Is there any problem in this country that Mr Stabby won't try to blame on immigrants? Its quite interesting to see how immigrants completely dominate the social housing in London. Its not a "good" or "bad" thing but one does wonder what happened to the people they have apparently displaced. Maybe they bought their flats foe peanuts under Thatcher then moved to a nicer area and rented the flats back to the council?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 16:50:38 GMT
I have to currently live in Tower Hamlets where the approximate figures are 2000 LA homes available with 20,000 applicants. And some people have 5 kids, who will get older. Etc..
Hmmm.
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