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Post by gigoguy on Jul 3, 2017 0:07:19 GMT
Can anyone help me with a legal issue?
It's regarding The Bridgewater Canal and them taking possession of boats.
My understanding is that they are governed by the Manchester Ship Canal Company act, as this is the act that is sited on their paperwork. I have tried to find a copy of the act but am unable to.
Does anyone know what is the procedure they must follow before they can take a boat? I've been told they can just take it without warning, notice or set time on the canal.
Please don't tell me what the crt rules are or what you 'think' just wyki if that's ok?
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Post by tadworth on Jul 3, 2017 0:26:36 GMT
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Post by tonyqj on Jul 3, 2017 1:01:08 GMT
"Upon expiry, cancellation or surrender of the licence, the holder shall unless the Company have transferred the licence to a new owner remove the craft from the Bridgewater Canal, the Upper Reach and the Company's property and in default the Company may after giving not less than seven days notice in writing to the holder at his last known address remove the boat and, if they think fit, sell or break up the craft and recover the cost from the holder."
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Post by gigoguy on Jul 3, 2017 9:40:25 GMT
"Upon expiry, cancellation or surrender of the licence, the holder shall unless the Company have transferred the licence to a new owner remove the craft from the Bridgewater Canal, the Upper Reach and the Company's property and in default the Company may after giving not less than seven days notice in writing to the holder at his last known address remove the boat and, if they think fit, sell or break up the craft and recover the cost from the holder." This isn't a licensing issue, I'm not a Bridgewater license holder, I'm a CaRT continuous cruiser passing through from a festival back to the Trent and Mersey and I needed to stay close to Manchester for a night. I know The Bridgewater is a private canal owned by Peel Holdings, but surely they must be bound by some legislation that stops them from being able to just take a boat without proper notification?
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Post by Jim on Jul 3, 2017 10:48:24 GMT
You are allowed 7 consecutive days in any 28 day period, then you can pay online to stay longer. The problem for some, and me, is that you fall outside these rules if you go through and back in a day or two each way within 28 days. Going through to Liverpool last year I just chanced it on the way back, prepared to cough up if I got spotted. I don't think you need to worry about the boat being confiscated.
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Post by tadworth on Jul 3, 2017 12:18:49 GMT
If you are worried just email them and get an agreement in writing for what you want to do.
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Post by pearley on Jul 3, 2017 14:34:34 GMT
If you are worried just email them and get an agreement in writing for what you want to do. That only works if they bother to reply. My experience last year, when I got an overstay notice stuck on the boat despite paying, and having confirmation, of an extra 7 day permit is that they rarely answer the phone, don't ring back if you leave a message and don't respond to emails.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 5, 2017 16:35:37 GMT
Can anyone help me with a legal issue? It's regarding The Bridgewater Canal and them taking possession of boats. My understanding is that they are governed by the Manchester Ship Canal Company act, as this is the act that is sited on their paperwork. I have tried to find a copy of the act but am unable to. Does anyone know what is the procedure they must follow before they can take a boat? I've been told they can just take it without warning, notice or set time on the canal. Please don't tell me what the crt rules are or what you 'think' just wyki if that's ok? You should first obtain a copy/print-out of the Act they are saying confers powers on them to control/remove unlicensed boats. Whatever powers they do in fact turn out to have will nevertheless be subject to constraints and protections imposed under later legislation, such as the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 and the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. I've looked for the 1960 MSCCo. Act on the internet, but have also failed to find anything. I suggest you ask Peel to provide you with a copy of the legislation they claim gives them entitlement to snatch your boat after 7 unlicensed days on their waters.
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Post by erivers on Jul 5, 2017 17:28:12 GMT
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 5, 2017 18:05:41 GMT
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Post by TonyDunkley on Jul 5, 2017 18:26:39 GMT
That's clear enough then, . . . S.9 of the MSC Act 1960 is faithfully reproduced in clause 8) of the Bridgewater Canal Licence T&C's. The vessel in question has to be left unlicensed in the canal for at least one month BEFORE the 7 days notice of removal can be given and with the removal itself being not before 7 days after that - in effect you've got 5 weeks before they can lawfully indulge in temporarily depriving you of your boat whilst it is being removed, which is a week more than you get if served with a BW/C&RT Section 8 Notice.
Also worthy of note is that the removal powers are limited to removing to - "a convenient place" - none of the C&RT nonsense involving craning the boat onto a lorry and taking it on a sightseeing tour round the country.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 19:40:16 GMT
none of the C&RT nonsense involving craning the boat onto a lorry and taking it on a sightseeing tour round the country. 😂🤣😂🤣😂 brilliant.
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Post by gigoguy on Aug 10, 2017 19:33:53 GMT
That's clear enough then, . . . S.9 of the MSC Act 1960 is faithfully reproduced in clause 8) of the Bridgewater Canal Licence T&C's. The vessel in question has to be left unlicensed in the canal for at least one month BEFORE the 7 days notice of removal can be given and with the removal itself being not before 7 days after that - in effect you've got 5 weeks before they can lawfully indulge in temporarily depriving you of your boat whilst it is being removed, which is a week more than you get if served with a BW/C&RT Section 8 Notice. Also worthy of note is that the removal powers are limited to removing to - "a convenient place" - none of the C&RT nonsense involving craning the boat onto a lorry and taking it on a sightseeing tour round the country. Hi Tony Thanks for that. I did find a copy and was aware of the section. However Peel Holdings seem to think that they are above the law and can do anything they want and no one has any jurisdiction. They have also unilaterally made alterations to a reciprocal agreement that was first set up and has never been changed since 1967. I was in Lymm today in my car and there were 5 boats in the village where there used to be 30. 2 pubs have closed 1 restaurant and the post office is now a charity shop.All but one bank have closed and from 5 cash machines there is now 1 and that will soon be removed if Sainsbury's closes. I have written several times to CaRT and they aren't bothered. I've written several times to Peel and although they will not provide any information regarding their legal status they are still trying to enforce a blatantly unlawful policy and CaRT are colluding with them. By passing on details of boaters through boat registration numbers if Peel staff are unable to speak to the boater in person. I have written to Theresa Coffee and she's not interested. I've written to the local MP and he's not interested and |I've written to the ministry of transport but they have not replies as yet. I think the long term intention of Peel Holdings is to close the canal at it's upper reaches north of Manchester. If not permanently then for a considerable length of time. The reason being that planning legislation has changed recently and now hundreds of acres of wasteland is now ripe for development. Peel Holdings care about 2 things. Money and land. They have no regard at all for boaters their own or CaRT's. They have no social conscience and no care for anyone or anything that they can't sell or build on. I am getting absolutely nowhere with them. And when I do make a point that they don't like they either stop replying or say it is a private canal and they can do what they want and no one can stop them. I'm looking for a few boats based in the north west to come with me and occupy the canal and force them to show what legal powers they do have, if any. I have already had a discussion with Cheshire Police and they realise that Peel have been taking advantage and trying to use them as some form a private security firm. They have confirmed that they will no longer attend as peace keepers if Peel attempt to remove boats in the future. I know they only have one vessel capable of towing away and that is rarely available and has to be booked in advance. We only need 3 boats and they are stuck. I'm one of them so I'm only looking for 2 other boaters who care what happens to the first proper commercial canal in the country and we've got us a convoy good buddy. If civil disobedience isn't your scene but you're a lawyer or just another curmudgeonly old git with nowt better to do than stir a wasps nest. Please give me a shout.
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Post by gigoguy on Aug 10, 2017 19:40:46 GMT
If you are worried just email them and get an agreement in writing for what you want to do. That only works if they bother to reply. My experience last year, when I got an overstay notice stuck on the boat despite paying, and having confirmation, of an extra 7 day permit is that they rarely answer the phone, don't ring back if you leave a message and don't respond to emails. It appears that BCCL have no legal authority to charge you anything. There are no signs anywhere on the canal and there is nothing in the by laws that relates to a charge for return passage. I would urge anyone who has paid anything to write to them requesting a copy of their legal authority to charge and demanding a full refund with interest. You want to write to lmorrissey@peel.co.uk
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Post by TonyDunkley on Aug 11, 2017 9:39:38 GMT
That's clear enough then, . . . S.9 of the MSC Act 1960 is faithfully reproduced in clause 8) of the Bridgewater Canal Licence T&C's. The vessel in question has to be left unlicensed in the canal for at least one month BEFORE the 7 days notice of removal can be given and with the removal itself being not before 7 days after that - in effect you've got 5 weeks before they can lawfully indulge in temporarily depriving you of your boat whilst it is being removed, which is a week more than you get if served with a BW/C&RT Section 8 Notice. Also worthy of note is that the removal powers are limited to removing to - "a convenient place" - none of the C&RT nonsense involving craning the boat onto a lorry and taking it on a sightseeing tour round the country. Hi Tony Thanks for that. I did find a copy and was aware of the section. However Peel Holdings seem to think that they are above the law and can do anything they want and no one has any jurisdiction. They have also unilaterally made alterations to a reciprocal agreement that was first set up and has never been changed since 1967. I was in Lymm today in my car and there were 5 boats in the village where there used to be 30. 2 pubs have closed 1 restaurant and the post office is now a charity shop.All but one bank have closed and from 5 cash machines there is now 1 and that will soon be removed if Sainsbury's closes. I have written several times to CaRT and they aren't bothered. I've written several times to Peel and although they will not provide any information regarding their legal status they are still trying to enforce a blatantly unlawful policy and CaRT are colluding with them. By passing on details of boaters through boat registration numbers if Peel staff are unable to speak to the boater in person. I have written to Theresa Coffee and she's not interested. I've written to the local MP and he's not interested and |I've written to the ministry of transport but they have not replies as yet. I think the long term intention of Peel Holdings is to close the canal at it's upper reaches north of Manchester. If not permanently then for a considerable length of time. The reason being that planning legislation has changed recently and now hundreds of acres of wasteland is now ripe for development. Peel Holdings care about 2 things. Money and land. They have no regard at all for boaters their own or CaRT's. They have no social conscience and no care for anyone or anything that they can't sell or build on. I am getting absolutely nowhere with them. And when I do make a point that they don't like they either stop replying or say it is a private canal and they can do what they want and no one can stop them. I'm looking for a few boats based in the north west to come with me and occupy the canal and force them to show what legal powers they do have, if any. I have already had a discussion with Cheshire Police and they realise that Peel have been taking advantage and trying to use them as some form a private security firm. They have confirmed that they will no longer attend as peace keepers if Peel attempt to remove boats in the future. I know they only have one vessel capable of towing away and that is rarely available and has to be booked in advance. We only need 3 boats and they are stuck. I'm one of them so I'm only looking for 2 other boaters who care what happens to the first proper commercial canal in the country and we've got us a convoy good buddy. If civil disobedience isn't your scene but you're a lawyer or just another curmudgeonly old git with nowt better to do than stir a wasps nest. Please give me a shout. I'm very interested in what you're saying here about Peel's conduct and attitude. Can we have some more details, please, particularly in regard to incidences of boat 'removals' - ie. how that was accomplished, at what sort of cost to the owners, effects and extent of Police involvement, and how the matter ended ?
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