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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 16:46:41 GMT
If you look at pure numbers you miss the point NHS Digital were showing in the graph I posted. For the first time the number of EU nurses leaving the UK exceeds the number of EU Nurses coming here. That only happened after the referendum. If it was only down to poor working conditions etc then I would suggest we would have seen such a trend prior to the referendum result as Nurses have been complaining about conditions/lack of resources in the NHS since I started back in 1977. That is certainly not a new issue, but Brexit is. The figures given by the very organisation you have chosen to use within your argument, show overwhelmingly that brexit is not the predominant reason for nurses leaving the nhs. Job done. Fraid not. It shows lots of nurses are leaving the NHS. So the organisation you were discrediting earlier are now suddenly a credible source of data?? Make your mind up please.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 16:55:50 GMT
The figures given by the very organisation you have chosen to use within your argument, show overwhelmingly that brexit is not the predominant reason for nurses leaving the nhs. Job done. Fraid not. It shows lots of nurses are leaving the NHS. So the organisation you were discrediting earlier are now suddenly a credible source of data?? Make your mind up please. Your just wasting my time and energy now. You lost your cause several pages back.
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Post by peterboat on Jan 17, 2018 16:57:07 GMT
People from Europe working here pay taxes, so they do pay to access the NHS, is that really the best argument you have got, really??? You really should vie for the UKIP leadership with that depth of argument. Your not really grasping the context of my posts are you martin (evident from your attempt to undermine me yet again, this time using ukip). The nhs was built and survives on long term investment. Invested by many of us for decades. Hundreds of thousands suddenly using its resources over a 5 year period having paid fuck all into it will cause strain. The logistics to deal with such numbers were, or never will be in place. That's fuck all to do with UKIP, it's just fact and common sense. Steve we have heard it all before, hundreds and hundreds of thousands didnt arrive over a very short period! they all immediately walked into jobs and housing which they paid for, and none of them needed medical care at all!! None of them are claiming benefits,, none of them are a drain on the community all of them can speak english [when claiming benefits but not when arrested for knife crime], all of them fart perfumed scents and above all crime hasnt increased at all since they arrived!! This is a fact we had a housing shortage before the idiot Blair allowed the above to happen we had unemployment as well, we also had waiting lists at hospitals and bed shortages as well! so why did the moron think it would get better when he allowed millions to enter? answers on a pin head please I am not being a racist I am being a realist
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 17:00:55 GMT
Fraid not. It shows lots of nurses are leaving the NHS. So the organisation you were discrediting earlier are now suddenly a credible source of data?? Make your mind up please. Your just wasting my time and energy now. Actually you were wasting it a few pages back with a woefully weak argument and lack of evidence. I don't think you even bothered to look at the BMA survey which actually asked EU Doctors about their intentions post referendum, so even if you do put nursing to one side and dispute the figures to claim Brexit is not going to have an impact on the NHS that would be very short sighted (that's not a personal insult BTW just a metaphorical reference).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 17:01:52 GMT
Your not really grasping the context of my posts are you martin (evident from your attempt to undermine me yet again, this time using ukip). The nhs was built and survives on long term investment. Invested by many of us for decades. Hundreds of thousands suddenly using its resources over a 5 year period having paid fuck all into it will cause strain. The logistics to deal with such numbers were, or never will be in place. That's fuck all to do with UKIP, it's just fact and common sense. I am not being a racist I am being a realist Let it be noted that nobody has mentioned racism until you just did.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 17:14:33 GMT
<Ignoring Foxy's inevitable attempt to bring this down to islamic terrorism>. Figures released by the NMC earlier this year showed a small but significant increase in the numbers of EU nurses opting to leave the register. A survey of 247 EU nurses who left the NMC register over the past 12 months shows that their top three reasons were that they were leaving or had already left the UK, 58 per cent; Brexit had encouraged them to consider working outside the UK, 32 per cent and unhappiness with working conditions, 32 per cent.www.nmc.org.uk/news/press-releases/new-figures-show-an-increase-in-numbers-of-nurses-and-midwives-leaving-the-professions/Now yes that shows a lot left due to working conditions (as expected) but it also shows a lot left directly as a result of Brexit, so cut it how you like Brexit is a reason for nurse leaving the UK NHS.
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Post by thebfg on Jan 17, 2018 17:16:41 GMT
Which bit of brexit are the nurses uncertain about to make them feel unwelcome and to return home. I can only speak first hand regarding the ones I know of or know. They speak of great uncertainty about their future here in this country and a general feeling of no longer feeling welcome in the UK. Now of course some will dismiss that as 'poppy cock' or 'rubbish' but that none the less that is how they feel. They also feel a continued lack of guaranteed employment rights post March 2019 could mean a sudden influx of EU nurses back to EU countries (if no guarantee is given) could mean a sudden clamour for jobs back home. So they would rather secure a job now that have to fight for one later. Which begs the question, why the NHS, where I am we have a massive European contingency. In fact I am the only British player on my football team. Not one of my team or any that I know and that's quite a lot are worried about the future. They know they won't be kicked out and they know they are welcome so what makes nurses different?
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Post by thebfg on Jan 17, 2018 17:18:44 GMT
<Ignoring Foxy's inevitable attempt to bring this down to islamic terrorism>. Figures released by the NMC earlier this year showed a small but significant increase in the numbers of EU nurses opting to leave the register. A survey of 247 EU nurses who left the NMC register over the past 12 months shows that their top three reasons were that they were leaving or had already left the UK, 58 per cent; Brexit had encouraged them to consider working outside the UK, 32 per cent and unhappiness with working conditions, 32 per cent.www.nmc.org.uk/news/press-releases/new-figures-show-an-increase-in-numbers-of-nurses-and-midwives-leaving-the-professions/Now yes that shows a lot left due to working conditions (as expected) but it also shows a lot left directly as a result of Brexit, so cut it how you like Brexit is a reason for nurse leaving the UK NHS. Being cheeky. If one nurse left because of brexit, it would still be a reason. I'm going to see if it's just s nurses leaving the NHS full stop or just E.U. ones showing that trend as that makes a massive difference.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 17:19:31 GMT
I can only speak first hand regarding the ones I know of or know. They speak of great uncertainty about their future here in this country and a general feeling of no longer feeling welcome in the UK. Now of course some will dismiss that as 'poppy cock' or 'rubbish' but that none the less that is how they feel. They also feel a continued lack of guaranteed employment rights post March 2019 could mean a sudden influx of EU nurses back to EU countries (if no guarantee is given) could mean a sudden clamour for jobs back home. So they would rather secure a job now that have to fight for one later. Which begs the question, why the NHS, where I am we have a massive European contingency. In fact I am the only British player on my football team. Not one of my team or any that I know and that's quite a lot are worried about the future. They know they won't be kicked out and they know they are welcome so what makes nurses different? I can't answer that, I can only report why they feel as they do. Note it's not all EU nurses of course some seem happy to stay too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 17:20:16 GMT
Your not really grasping the context of my posts are you martin (evident from your attempt to undermine me yet again, this time using ukip). The nhs was built and survives on long term investment. Invested by many of us for decades. Hundreds of thousands suddenly using its resources over a 5 year period having paid fuck all into it will cause strain. The logistics to deal with such numbers were, or never will be in place. That's fuck all to do with UKIP, it's just fact and common sense. ...None of them are claiming benefits,, none of them are a drain on the community all of them can speak english [when claiming benefits but not when arrested for knife crime], all of them fart perfumed scents and above all crime hasnt increased at all since they arrived!! ... I am not being a racist I am being a realist Funny sort of realism you have...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 17:22:08 GMT
<Ignoring Foxy's inevitable attempt to bring this down to islamic terrorism>. Figures released by the NMC earlier this year showed a small but significant increase in the numbers of EU nurses opting to leave the register. A survey of 247 EU nurses who left the NMC register over the past 12 months shows that their top three reasons were that they were leaving or had already left the UK, 58 per cent; Brexit had encouraged them to consider working outside the UK, 32 per cent and unhappiness with working conditions, 32 per cent.www.nmc.org.uk/news/press-releases/new-figures-show-an-increase-in-numbers-of-nurses-and-midwives-leaving-the-professions/Now yes that shows a lot left due to working conditions (as expected) but it also shows a lot left directly as a result of Brexit, so cut it how you like Brexit is a reason for nurse leaving the UK NHS. Being cheeky. If one nurse left because of brexit, it would still be a reason. I'm going to see if it's just s nurses leaving the NHS full stop or just E.U. ones showing that trend as that makes a massive difference. No a third of nurses of the 247 asked gave that reason. As I have already said (do keep up) large numbers of nurses are leaving the NHS and some EU nurses have left because of poor working conditions and probably nothing to do with Brexit at all.
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Post by thebfg on Jan 17, 2018 17:31:54 GMT
Being cheeky. If one nurse left because of brexit, it would still be a reason. I'm going to see if it's just s nurses leaving the NHS full stop or just E.U. ones showing that trend as that makes a massive difference. No a third of nurses of the 247 asked gave that reason. As I have already said (do keep up) large numbers of nurses are leaving the NHS and some EU nurses have left because of poor working conditions and probably nothing to do with Brexit at all. So what's the issue. People come and go. They still will. Is suspect some of the brexit ones probably would of left any way. With that being the final straw.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 17:37:45 GMT
Your not really grasping the context of my posts are you martin (evident from your attempt to undermine me yet again, this time using ukip). The nhs was built and survives on long term investment. Invested by many of us for decades. Hundreds of thousands suddenly using its resources over a 5 year period having paid fuck all into it will cause strain. The logistics to deal with such numbers were, or never will be in place. That's fuck all to do with UKIP, it's just fact and common sense. ... before the idiot Blair allowed the above to happen we had unemployment as well, we also had waiting lists at hospitals and bed shortages as well! so why did the moron think it would get better when he allowed millions to enter? answers on a pin head please I am not being a racist I am being a realist I think you might find out that it was a Conservative government that took us into the EU and also signed us up for free movement (anyone remember Maastricht?).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 17:45:08 GMT
The point here, is that Martin initially "attempted" to suggest this was an indicator directly caused by brexit. He tried to give it a bit of large, when in fact it has little or no legs at all when it comes to brexit.
The facts are clear, the remainers doomsday predictions are not materialising, and they are now scrabbling for scraps in the hope of saving a bit of face.
Brexit will happen, maybe not in the manner some hoped, but it will happen. The sooner, the better in my view.
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Post by kris on Jan 17, 2018 17:48:33 GMT
The sooner the better is right.
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