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Post by Clinton Cool on Mar 10, 2019 15:52:03 GMT
Sometimes accidents happen, life is like that.
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Post by thebfg on Mar 10, 2019 16:53:27 GMT
Sometimes accidents happen, life is like that. Yep, whist it's sad. Life must go on.
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Post by Telemachus on Mar 10, 2019 18:09:41 GMT
Of course, good communications between different elements of a team are always going to be beneficial, but it doesn’t have to be formalised into risk assessments. I agree, but in real world scenarios unless there is a compulsory requirement for a formal risk assessment shit will happen. I recall a situation in Turkey where a supervisor decided to hire a couple of guys with a wheeled concrete mixer and agricultural tractor to mix and place some concrete deep in a mountain range. He took a short cut and hired the crew in the local town square, to be paid cash in hand, loaded the kit in the back of a couple of tipper trucks and hauled them up the steep road leading to the mountain pass. No written contract, no safety induction, no HSE training. The next day there was a tractor rolled over at the side of a remote mountain track on a down-slope, smashed to pieces by the heavy un-braked concrete mixer it had been towing, two men who were sitting on the mudguards were dead and the driver critically ill in hospital. The supervisor admitted that he was fully aware of the shortcomings of his actions when he hired the crew. He realised and admitted, albeit after the event, that if he had followed procedure the job would have taken one day more, and everybody would still have been alive. The risk assessment would have identified that men should not travel as passengers on the back of a tractor, and a light tractor should not tow a heavy un-braked trailer except for manouevring around the site. Mitigation - he could easily have transported the mixer and the men to the site on the tipper trucks, an additional journey of about 10km. Was he to blame - yes 100%. The crew had no knowledge of the location and were left to their own devices miles away from any support or means of communication. Without a requirement for a formal process such an event would happen regularly. But all those things that you mention that should have been done, are common sense for anybody with any sense of safety culture. They are also all things that can be planned in advance, there is no significant time pressure, so not comparable to an aircraft in flight. Of course Shoreham will have some sort of written rules on display flying - the “display line” to ensure aircraft don’t have energy taking them towards the crowds etc. But it is a congested part of the world and if a fast jet is going to crash, there is a fair chance it will take something out whether it be a house, farm, road etc. There is no completely clear line along which one can crash with impunity without risking killing someone. You could I suppose argue that therefore the airfield wasn’t a suitable place for an airshow, but CAA and the airport operators disagree with you. There is always some inherent risk with flying - although of course a much higher risk with using the roads - and sometimes shit happens. If you want to eliminate all risk, stay in bed. Except that most people die in bed! Risk should of course be reduced to ALARP but that isn’t the same as zero, and thus accidents will happen.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 18:15:45 GMT
I find the fact the pilot survived quite interesting. Is there some sort of emergency procedure you perform when you realise you are going to crash? Like finding a flat surface rather than a wooded area for example.
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Post by Telemachus on Mar 10, 2019 18:28:39 GMT
I find the fact the pilot survived quite interesting. Is there some sort of emergency procedure you perform when you realise you are going to crash? Like finding a flat surface rather than a wooded area for example. Normally perhaps yes, if you are still in control. But he was just trying to kill the rate of descent, stalled it and thus was not in control, and it carried him to the scene of the accident. It was fairly miraculous that he survived, apparently that bit of the cockpit broke off and he was catapulted into a ditch where he escaped the worst of the fuel fire. Very lucky.
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Post by thebfg on Mar 10, 2019 21:12:39 GMT
That's one of the reasons Bournemouth air show is so successful. You get to sit on the beach while they fly around at sea.
There is a flying line which they cant do acrobatics over but they do enter and leave over the beach.
I suppose they could still crash on the way to and from the beach and any accident would be had as its densely populated.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 21:27:14 GMT
Slimy Indians again
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Post by bodger on Mar 10, 2019 22:10:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 22:28:48 GMT
I walked away from an arrival, the undercarriage was removed by a rock face and we landed on a ledge. My instructor never mentioned any problem, I had a hood on so I could not see out the window. Another life experience.!
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Post by bodger on Mar 11, 2019 8:28:01 GMT
I walked away from an arrival, the undercarriage was removed by a rock face and we landed on a ledge. My instructor never mentioned any problem, I had a hood on so I could not see out the window. Another life experience.! was that tiddleywinks or chess?
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Post by JohnV on Mar 11, 2019 8:55:47 GMT
I walked away from an arrival once as well ..... Dublin airport ...... sodding bus to the terminal broke down
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2019 9:27:34 GMT
I thought it was the holy cows
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