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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 13:28:40 GMT
the hull and associated parts are really heavy duty I expect its s barge which was converted. The cabin bulkheads are quite tinny they appear to be plywood.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 14:02:24 GMT
I'm not an expert on sailing barges (or anything else) but does the presence of the two items I have highlighted perhaps indicate a boat which previously had two masts ? Like Johanna did ? I was told that there was a large stainless steel steering wheel which was stolen and also that the boat "looked a picture" when it arrived but I don't know when that was. I was wondering of the mast was originally mounted in that forepeak after the original conversion to twin masts then someone later moved it to the cabin top for aesthetic non-sailing reasons and to increase accomomodation space. This metal bar (not sure what its called) seems to me to be designed to prevent the mizzen boom fouling the rudder. And the other one the same is in front of the existing mast so would be pointless. They are seriously heavy duty and well made pieces of ironwork. So I am going to say this was previously a twin masted vessel. What do you reckon peter bargemast ?
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Post by bargemast on Nov 8, 2018 17:01:37 GMT
This picture is easier to look at as it's in the right position The bar you talk about is called in Dutch the "Grootzeil-overloop" which should be in English the "Mainsheet-traveller". On the sides you can see the pulley's that were used for the wheel-steering, attached to the sort of ring on the tiller. On the fishermans Botter you won't see them, but you will on the Botter-Yachts, as the photo here shows, and they have nothing (nada) to do with a mizzen mast. On the wreck you'll see a second traveller bar just in front of the mast tabernacle, which is the Jib-Traveller Peter.
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Post by bargemast on Nov 8, 2018 17:06:36 GMT
Here is a nice video (sadly in Dutch again) of which the pictures speak enough to understand the great work they did
Peter.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 17:46:32 GMT
Like I said I'm not an expert (well I am an expert at conjecture ) but I do like hearing from knowledgeable people Most probably not the Johanna then. If I do get a name for it I'll put it up. Thanks for all the information. I've been wondering about going to Holland but I don't think I ought to risk it yet as my kids need me ! Maybe when they are adults I can get lost in a world of wonderful boats. Fingers crossed. Eta like I said before I only sailed once in my life for about an hour. In a 10ft dinghy on a 100m wide river (Thames). So I know very little about sailing boats but I can see its fairly obvious these iron bars were something to do with a rope attached to the bottom of the sail to stop it going to far out.
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Post by bargemast on Nov 8, 2018 19:34:52 GMT
Like I said I'm not an expert (well I am an expert at conjecture ) but I do like hearing from knowledgeable people Most probably not the Johanna then. If I do get a name for it I'll put it up. Thanks for all the information. I've been wondering about going to Holland but I don't think I ought to risk it yet as my kids need me ! Maybe when they are adults I can get lost in a world of wonderful boats. Fingers crossed. Eta like I said before I only sailed once in my life for about an hour. In a 10ft dinghy on a 100m wide river (Thames). So I know very little about sailing boats but I can see its fairly obvious these iron bars were something to do with a rope attached to the bottom of the sail to stop it going to far out. Being an expert at conjecture is always a good start to find out more. Your kids need you now to bring them to school and to pick them up, and go for the occasional boat trip with them, but they'll grow up very fast and will be adults in no time at all. Don't think that you'll be free to do what you like to do then, as they'll need you to babysit your grand-children, and bring them to school and pick them up etc. as they themselfs will be to busy working, or doing other things with not enough time for their own kids, and that's where you'll come in handy again. Peter.
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Post by 46700 on Nov 9, 2018 15:53:53 GMT
When I used to visit My parents on the IOW, they lived in a house with land backing on to the river YAR at Yarmouth a Dutch guy used to visit from Holland for a 2 week stay in Yarrmouth he used my parents mooring, his boat looked very similar to the one in slings in the photo. Merc OM636 powered, the last year I saw him would have been 1996 he didn't contact Mum in 97 or 98 & mum passed in 99 so it either got to much or a passed away job. Boat was an absolute stunner all varnished what appeared hardwood with leeboards & an extremely long pennant flying from the mast head & reaching right down to the water also masses of scroll work & decorative woodwork a super boat but I remember had very limited headroom.never the less a boat I would have been pleased to own.
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Post by bargemast on Nov 9, 2018 17:33:09 GMT
When I used to visit My parents on the IOW, they lived in a house with land backing on to the river YAR at Yarmouth a Dutch guy used to visit from Holland for a 2 week stay in Yarrmouth he used my parents mooring, his boat looked very similar to the one in slings in the photo. Merc OM636 powered, the last year I saw him would have been 1996 he didn't contact Mum in 97 or 98 & mum passed in 99 so it either got to much or a passed away job. Boat was an absolute stunner all varnished what appeared hardwood with leeboards & an extremely long pennant flying from the mast head & reaching right down to the water also masses of scroll work & decorative woodwork a super boat but I remember had very limited headroom.never the less a boat I would have been pleased to own. There have been several beautifully varnished Botteryachts around and there still are quite a few in the hands of some real (and wealthy) enthousiasts. The one that used your parents mooring may have looked like the one in the slings, but was a different boat, as the one in the slings named "Groote Beer" spend most of it's life in the U.S and was bought by a Dutchman in 2001 and came finally back to the Netherlands for a complete restauration. Sadly enough it fell out of the slings in 2015 and had a lot of damage because of that as you can see in the phote rudder broken off and a huge crack in the stern, it was all repaired again and she's been back in the water since 2017. Here's an interesting article about that boat www.wavetrain.net/boats-a-gear/350-groote-beer-hermann-goerings-botter-jacht-not
Peter.
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Post by rockdodger on Nov 13, 2018 7:49:52 GMT
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Post by JohnV on Nov 13, 2018 8:53:38 GMT
what a fascinating site !!!
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Post by peterboat on Nov 13, 2018 9:42:13 GMT
Fascinating yes but I dont like seeing boats like that its just to sad
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 10:10:22 GMT
Yes it is. Well spotted ! This one (image from derelict London website) The person who manages the mooring (which requires a PLA license) arranged for it to be hauled further inland as the PLA had flagged it as a potential hazard to shipping if it ended up floating about in the River.
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Post by 46700 on Nov 13, 2018 12:17:14 GMT
When I used to visit My parents on the IOW, they lived in a house with land backing on to the river YAR at Yarmouth a Dutch guy used to visit from Holland for a 2 week stay in Yarrmouth he used my parents mooring, his boat looked very similar to the one in slings in the photo. Merc OM636 powered, the last year I saw him would have been 1996 he didn't contact Mum in 97 or 98 & mum passed in 99 so it either got to much or a passed away job. Boat was an absolute stunner all varnished what appeared hardwood with leeboards & an extremely long pennant flying from the mast head & reaching right down to the water also masses of scroll work & decorative woodwork a super boat but I remember had very limited headroom.never the less a boat I would have been pleased to own. There have been several beautifully varnished Botteryachts around and there still are quite a few in the hands of some real (and wealthy) enthousiasts. The one that used your parents mooring may have looked like the one in the slings, but was a different boat, as the one in the slings named "Groote Beer" spend most of it's life in the U.S and was bought by a Dutchman in 2001 and came finally back to the Netherlands for a complete restauration. Sadly enough it fell out of the slings in 2015 and had a lot of damage because of that as you can see in the phote rudder broken off and a huge crack in the stern, it was all repaired again and she's been back in the water since 2017. Here's an interesting article about that boat www.wavetrain.net/boats-a-gear/350-groote-beer-hermann-goerings-botter-jacht-not
Peter.I didn't mean it was that boat just a similar type/shape, thought there was a couple or so photo' around for perhaps a name but at the moment cant locate them Billing model boat kits did a very similar looking model of the one that used to come Could it have been a Lemsteraak asvphoto's on line look very similar
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Post by bargemast on Nov 13, 2018 13:13:39 GMT
Very good, but also a very sad find. The poor wreck looks to be in much better shape on that photo, and with by the looks of it still complete with all the rigging. Peter.
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Post by bargemast on Nov 13, 2018 13:31:45 GMT
There have been several beautifully varnished Botteryachts around and there still are quite a few in the hands of some real (and wealthy) enthousiasts. The one that used your parents mooring may have looked like the one in the slings, but was a different boat, as the one in the slings named "Groote Beer" spend most of it's life in the U.S and was bought by a Dutchman in 2001 and came finally back to the Netherlands for a complete restauration. Sadly enough it fell out of the slings in 2015 and had a lot of damage because of that as you can see in the phote rudder broken off and a huge crack in the stern, it was all repaired again and she's been back in the water since 2017. Here's an interesting article about that boat www.wavetrain.net/boats-a-gear/350-groote-beer-hermann-goerings-botter-jacht-not
Peter.I didn't mean it was that boat just a similar type/shape, thought there was a couple or so photo' around for perhaps a name but at the moment cant locate them Billing model boat kits did a very similar looking model of the one that used to come Could it have been a Lemsteraak asvphoto's on line look very similar
OK, this was a slight misunderstanding from my side then. The barge visiting your parents mooring could of course have been a Lemsteraak, most likely build of steel (iron) as almost all the Lemsteraken that were built after 1900 were made of steel, from a fair distance they may look more or less the same as a Botter, but they really are quite different. A good friend of mine who used to be a boatbuilder in the Netherlands built more than 30 Lemsteraken, I'll post a photo of one of the boats he has built Peter.
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