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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 17:35:57 GMT
I might have got things wrong - equally the fitter might have got things wrong. I have a suspicion that I've quoted the fitter re alternator amps. Hence trying to sort myself... with help from you lovely people...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 17:39:41 GMT
Or call the man who put it on back? I suppose as its the start battery alternator it does have an impact on ability to move the boat if its wired up to only use the start battery for engine starting. It is all quite confusing because 50a would be too small for a modern engine domestic alternator. They almost always put on relatively large alternators for the domestic circuit in the order of ~100-150A. In the case of a Barrus Shire the domestic alternator appears to be 140A which is what @gazza suggested earlier. It also seems a bit unusual for an engine start battery dedicated alternator to fail. Hmm. Is this 50a alternator for some reason being asked to deliver the power which was originally intended to be drawn from the 140a "domestic" alternator? I still think engine running all loads switched on and IR thermometer shone on each alternator would show what's happening. I must admit I'm a bit lost. I thought @donkey 140a domestic alt shit itself, advice was given to jump from start battery to domestic battery to get charging using the OE Yanmar start alternator while the domestic alt was replaced - along with using travelpower The 50a alt should be the one that runs the water pump, unless it's been set up that the large domestic alt runs the water pump and the small alt is separate? Well confused tbh. It takes nothing away (or adds!) to the discussion on alignment though! However if the 50a alt output has been re-routed to provide the domestic loads via the sterling 1600 inverter then we would be looking at problems such as Insufficient domestic battery charge Alternator overload leading to failure Belt failure indicating alternator overload. Maybe?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 17:42:31 GMT
I might have got things wrong - equally the fitter might have got things wrong. I have a suspicion that I've quoted the fitter re alternator amps. Hence trying to sort myself... with help from you lovely people... Well you did say it was a single vee belt so I do think this is the 50a alternator originally intended for engine start battery and some related items maybe bilge pump. Definitely NOT a residential narrow boat with mod cons. The next thing is going to be you run an electric kettle off the inverter.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 17:54:46 GMT
The problem lies with the domestic alternator, single v shaped belt with teeth belt to the flywheel nothing else connected by other pulleys etc. Anything else I've mentioned is wrong in regards to the problem.
Does that make things clearer?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 17:55:28 GMT
Or call the man who put it on back? Going by all the problems Donkey has had with this, after only around 20 hours of use, I wouldn't think he'd want him anywhere near his boat ever again. He might thank him one day
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 17:59:34 GMT
The problem lies with the domestic alternator, single v shaped belt with teeth belt to the flywheel nothing else connected by other pulleys etc. Anything else I've mentioned is wrong in regards to the problem.
Does that make things clearer?
Is the alternator which is belted via the water pump a smaller unit? I realise its dark. It seems like someone has been modifying this thing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 18:02:59 GMT
The problem lies with the domestic alternator, single v shaped belt with teeth belt to the flywheel nothing else connected by other pulleys etc. Anything else I've mentioned is wrong in regards to the problem.
Does that make things clearer?
Is the alternator which is belted via the water pump a smaller unit? I realise its dark. It seems like someone has been modifying this thing. Yes much smaller.
Domestic alternator is the sort you find on buses so I'm told...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 18:14:21 GMT
Yes "bus alternator" is a large frame alternator but they will not run satisfactorily on a single v belt if you start drawing a lot of power. The rule of thumb seems to be 90-100a out of a single v belt.
Something odd here. Maybe the original crank pulley came loose. Beta marine had some problems with crank pulleys and high output alternators.
It seems to me like there have been some modifications to the original specifications .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 18:22:54 GMT
I'm sure once the alignment issue is sorted that I'll be fine.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 18:29:10 GMT
Maybe the original crank pulley came loose. This is something I’d have a look at urgently. We had a problem where the belt to the alternator started to misalign. It was making a lot of noise. When I looked down to the pulley on the crankshaft, it was almost off the shaft. A weld on the inside of the pulley has come away. We caught it just in time before it caused any major damage. The pulley on the outer side which nearly came off (with two groves to drive the 240v generator) has quite high loads, so I guess that’s what caused it all to work away from the crankcase.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Feb 22, 2019 19:40:42 GMT
The other "Mr Stabby Top Tip" is that when installing a new alternator belt, you should always wipe off all pulley faces with petrol, white spirit, thinners etc..at a push a few drops of Fairy Liquid in some warm water is better than nothing... you'd be amazed how many "marine engineers" don't bother doing this. after earlier asking : How long had you had the engine running after the belt was fitted before it shredded? Did you re-tension the belt after it was installed, at least twice? These can only be regarded as 'top tips' if you happen to be the proud but blissfully ignorant owner of a well worn old engine sporting unserviceable crankshaft, waterpump, and alternator pulleys, and a knackered front crankshaft/timing case oil seal. Engines with serviceable crank and ancillaries pulleys, and without front end oil leaks, don't require any such repeated or frequent adjustment, or farting about with degreasing agents to accompany the fitting of new belts. It is absolutely normal for any diesel engine, even one in good condition but particularly one in a relatively unventilated space such as a narrowboat engine hole, to cover adjacent components with a light misting of oil. I would clean this light misting of oil off when installing a new fan belt, you wouldn't. It is also absolutely normal for a new fan belt to slacken as it beds in, and so I would re-tension a new fan belt after it had been in service for a short period, you wouldn't. We'll just have to leave it to others to decide who they would rather have installing a new fan belt for them, me or you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2019 20:03:49 GMT
These can only be regarded as 'top tips' if you happen to be the proud but blissfully ignorant owner of a well worn old engine sporting unserviceable crankshaft, waterpump, and alternator pulleys, and a knackered front crankshaft/timing case oil seal. Engines with serviceable crank and ancillaries pulleys, and without front end oil leaks, don't require any such repeated or frequent adjustment, or farting about with degreasing agents to accompany the fitting of new belts. It is absolutely normal for any diesel engine, even one in good condition but particularly one in a relatively unventilated space such as a narrowboat engine hole, to cover adjacent components with a light misting of oil. I would clean this light misting of oil off when installing a new fan belt, you wouldn't. It is also absolutely normal for a new fan belt to slacken as it beds in, and so I would re-tension a new fan belt after it had been in service for a short period, you wouldn't. We'll just have to leave it to others to decide who they would rather have installing a new fan belt for them, me or you. Sorry Stabby, that’s cobblers. Part of my duties Used to include servicing Perkins engined (amongst others) standby generators housed in 20’ containers - they came into the workshop, were serviced then sent back to site were I may not see them again for up to 6 months at a time. I wouldn’t have been very popular if the alternator belt needed fucking about with using your methods - any problems were dealt with in the workshop, not on site were a failure could mean the loss of an install and a potentially huge bill (sometimes in the several £100k+ Region) I’m guessing peterboat wouldn’t make much money on you in his garage either!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2019 20:08:36 GMT
I'd rather ruin a petrol generator than my alternator and engine, batteries & inverter. Carry on. As you were. I agree with you here foxy - the major problem with a genny is the risk of some scrote pinching it 🤬🧐👌
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2019 20:08:44 GMT
Don't forget I'm a muppet, and it might be wise for me to check everything is ok after the engine has run a while.
Hopefully picking up new nut/washer and belts, then finally on to the Stort tomorrow.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Feb 22, 2019 20:09:30 GMT
It is absolutely normal for any diesel engine, even one in good condition but particularly one in a relatively unventilated space such as a narrowboat engine hole, to cover adjacent components with a light misting of oil. I would clean this light misting of oil off when installing a new fan belt, you wouldn't. It is also absolutely normal for a new fan belt to slacken as it beds in, and so I would re-tension a new fan belt after it had been in service for a short period, you wouldn't. We'll just have to leave it to others to decide who they would rather have installing a new fan belt for them, me or you. Sorry Stabby, that’s cobblers. Part of my duties Used to include servicing Perkins engined (amongst others) standby generators housed in 20’ containers - they came into the workshop, were serviced then sent back to site were I may not see them again for up to 6 months at a time. They have toothed belts where stretch is not an issue.
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