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Post by patty on May 1, 2019 7:20:45 GMT
Not sure it would make any difference but perhaps a list compiled and published would highlight problems boaters as facing..on the one hand they do not want waste emptied into canals but on the other they take away facilities...
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Post by phil70 on May 1, 2019 7:23:24 GMT
I often wonder what could possibly be so wrong to cause a Elsan to be closed. They are a very simple thing and ensuring they are serviceable surely is a matter of emptying, cleansing and providing a supply of water. These 3 key points are I feel easily attainable Phil
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 7:32:17 GMT
I wonder if its related to dry toilet systems.
Either crt trying to encourage use of dry toilets by making it more difficult to empty the elsan types or perhaps there have been problems with people emptying dry toilet waste into elsan hoppers and blocking them.
Then there are the wet wipes. A wet wipe can block a pumped elsan hopper completely resulting in a £££ call out.
Not all of them are pumped but some certainly are.
It would be interesting to know if the ones which have been closed were pumped systems...
Its not that obvious whether the thing has its own tank or a transfer pump because the pump is automatic and users would not necessarily be aware of its presence.
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Post by thebfg on May 1, 2019 7:58:29 GMT
Foxy you may ridicule it, but this is a serious issue for people who live on their boats. The facilities in the basin at Loughborough was another one of the deals done with a property developer where they get planning permission for their development(posh flats) if they put boaters facilities in it somewhere. Then low and behold at sometime in the future the facilities are closed and cart do nothing about it. I've seen the same thing happen in granary wharf in Leeds, did you know foxy that there are supposed to be some nice new facilities in the base of the big round building? Well you would have had to be quick to use them as they where shut not long after the building was opened and never reopened, they have now been converted into an exspensive bar. . I could have a look when I have time but I hope that adding facilities is in the planning permission, it might not be but if it is then they are in breach and should be reported to the council.
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Post by kris on May 1, 2019 8:07:42 GMT
Foxy you may ridicule it, but this is a serious issue for people who live on their boats. The facilities in the basin at Loughborough was another one of the deals done with a property developer where they get planning permission for their development(posh flats) if they put boaters facilities in it somewhere. Then low and behold at sometime in the future the facilities are closed and cart do nothing about it. I've seen the same thing happen in granary wharf in Leeds, did you know foxy that there are supposed to be some nice new facilities in the base of the big round building? Well you would have had to be quick to use them as they where shut not long after the building was opened and never reopened, they have now been converted into an exspensive bar. . I could have a look when I have time but I hope that adding facilities is in the planning permission, it might not be but if it is then they are in breach and should be reported to the council. Planning permission is probably not the best term for it, as its usually a deal done with cart to get the project off the ground before the council are involved. So I'd suggest it's nothing to do with the council. The thing that worrys me is as other people have said people will start dumping their toilets contents into the cut and just leaving their domestic waste lying around. This will then become a public health issue and will be used as leverage against boaters living on boats. You can bet it will be boaters who get the blame, not cart for not providing enough facilities. Look how cart blamed boaters for the breach near middlewich.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 8:10:36 GMT
I often wonder what could possibly be so wrong to cause a Elsan to be closed. They are a very simple thing and ensuring they are serviceable surely is a matter of emptying, cleansing and providing a supply of water. These 3 key points are I feel easily attainable Phil People putting the wrong stuff down a badly designed system is what breaks them, or to small a tank (Arm End) which fills up with only a couple of self pump outs. Wet wipes, self pump out, composting residue etc are what breaks them. I may go back to a proper sea toilet and dump mine in the river, all perfectly legal on EA Anglian region rivers
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 8:14:53 GMT
. I could have a look when I have time but I hope that adding facilities is in the planning permission, it might not be but if it is then they are in breach and should be reported to the council. Planning permission is probably not the best term for it, as its usually a deal done with cart to get the project off the ground before the council are involved. So I'd suggest it's nothing to do with the council. The thing that worrys me is as other people have said people will start dumping their toilets contents into the cut and just leaving their domestic waste lying around. This will then become a public health issue and will be used as leverage against boaters living on boats. It should be done as part of a Section 106 agreement which is used to mitigate the impact of the development on the local infrastructure and community. Often forgotten about by developers after PP is granted.
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Post by kris on May 1, 2019 8:16:12 GMT
Planning permission is probably not the best term for it, as its usually a deal done with cart to get the project off the ground before the council are involved. So I'd suggest it's nothing to do with the council. The thing that worrys me is as other people have said people will start dumping their toilets contents into the cut and just leaving their domestic waste lying around. This will then become a public health issue and will be used as leverage against boaters living on boats. It should be done as part of a Section 106 agreement which is used to mitigate the impact of the development on the local infrastructure and community. Often forgotten about by developers after PP is granted. Cart don't always operate like that, they often have these cosy deals with developers.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 1, 2019 8:26:12 GMT
Now after a gap of nearly 6 years I am concerned at what conditions I am going to find when I start moving Shapfell again. Ask at gyms and swimming pools. Does anyone know who 'cleans' CRT showers? Pirkko once used used a CRT shower on the Huddersfield Narrow Canal, I declined to step inside. We have our own shower in our boat and it works just fine.
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Post by kris on May 1, 2019 8:29:18 GMT
Now after a gap of nearly 6 years I am concerned at what conditions I am going to find when I start moving Shapfell again. Ask at gyms and swimming pools. Does anyone know who 'cleans' CRT showers? Pirkko once used used a CRT shower on the Huddersfield Narrow Canal, I declined to step inside. We have our own shower in our boat and it works just fine. All you've said there foxy is "im alright jack" why should people have to use gyms and swimming baths when they pay cart to provide facilities? Are you going to take your domestic waste to the swimming baths with you and ask them to dispose of it for you?
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Post by phil70 on May 1, 2019 8:33:51 GMT
It should be done as part of a Section 106 agreement which is used to mitigate the impact of the development on the local infrastructure and community. Often forgotten about by developers after PP is granted. Cart don't always operate like that, they often have these cosy deals with developers. But cosy deals don't hold water legally. I was a councillor and was on planning. We did deals with developers which at a basic level worked like this. We will give pp. provided you adhere to these agreement terms. The agreement terms were often that the developer provide a new road, street lighting, traffic calming, facilities for the extra kids that would dwell with parents in the new houses. Shops and pubs often figure as pp. requirements. If the developer fails in meeting the obligations they have agreed to in obtaining pp, they are in breach and risk serious comeback
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Post by naughtyfox on May 1, 2019 8:34:13 GMT
I was thinking more of John's trip with Shapfell. Are CRT under any obligation in law to provide 'facilities'? I don't know. When we go down the Thames this Summer,I wonder if the EA provide elsan & water points... Anyway, all this needs recording and a plan on what to do about it. Like... err... what?
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Post by naughtyfox on May 1, 2019 8:36:31 GMT
Cart don't always operate like that, they often have these cosy deals with developers. If the developer fails in meeting the obligations they have agreed to in obtaining pp, they are in breach and... ...all they have to do is slip the bent councillors brown envelopes filled with used banknotes.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 8:36:41 GMT
Yes there are regular elsan and water points and bins (free) on the Thames as well as paid for (mag stripe card) pumpouts.
Well organised and usually reliable although people do seem to block the pump out machines regularly.
I think the elsan at Hurley has been removed but its not far to the next one (cookham downstream or Shiplake upstream).
Obviously its quite an interesting topic because the elsan disposal facilities were installed at a time when there were generally less residential vessels on the water without moorings.
Closing them is an interesting tactic.
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Post by phil70 on May 1, 2019 8:37:52 GMT
I was thinking more of John's trip with Shapfell. Are CRT under any obligation in law to provide 'facilities'? I don't know. When we go down the Thames this Summer,I wonder if the EA provide elsan & water points... Anyway, all this needs recording and a plan on what to do about it. Like... err... what? If in doubt, change the oil Phil
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