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Post by Mr Stabby on May 5, 2019 11:38:58 GMT
There are issues with overcrowding on London waterways which need to be addressed, not least to facilitate cruising for visiting boats, but all of this is simply addressing a symptom, not the cause which is the overpopulation of London in relation to its housing supply, which forces folk to live on boats when they have no particular interest in, or affinity with boating.
The irony is of course that if you suggested to the average young, trendy and politically correct London boater that one of the root causes of this overcrowding should be addressed, namely uncontrolled immigration, then you would be "Waycist, innit?"
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Post by kris on May 5, 2019 11:40:03 GMT
So only rich people are going to be allowed inside the m25 unless they are there to clean the toilets or clean the streets? Kris, it may have escaped your notice, but certain places in the country are much more expensive to live in than others. Why do you think living on a boat should be different ? If you wish to live cheaply then you seek out an area that is cheap to live in. It's quite simple really. This is one of the reasons I am in the East Riding and not in Chelsea. We both know that most of the problem in London is lack of cheap housing. A large number of people on boats are not there as a first choice of where and how to live, for some it may become a chosen way of life but the majority only do it because they have no other option. I have always been convinced that if there were no people available to do the humdrum and menial jobs in cities because there was nowhere for them to live then those that employ them or demand those services might then move themselves and their companies out of the city. That of course would solve the problem. This is something on the lines I was arguing about many years ago. Solving overcrowding, by making more room is attempting to control something by positive feedback ..... always a bloody disaster You have to provide an alternative solution i.e. affordable housing and a negative pressure i.e. higher costs or stronger enforcement of moving/distance to discourage the status quo. Make it so that it is harder work and therefore off putting to those who only want accommodation. I don't live in London John, but not because it's exspensive mainly because of Londoners. But I've got friends who are born and bred that can no longer afford to live there, which seems strange. It just seems to me that these iwa preposals are just more gentrification.
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Post by JohnV on May 5, 2019 11:54:28 GMT
Kris, it may have escaped your notice, but certain places in the country are much more expensive to live in than others. Why do you think living on a boat should be different ? If you wish to live cheaply then you seek out an area that is cheap to live in. It's quite simple really. This is one of the reasons I am in the East Riding and not in Chelsea. We both know that most of the problem in London is lack of cheap housing. A large number of people on boats are not there as a first choice of where and how to live, for some it may become a chosen way of life but the majority only do it because they have no other option. I have always been convinced that if there were no people available to do the humdrum and menial jobs in cities because there was nowhere for them to live then those that employ them or demand those services might then move themselves and their companies out of the city. That of course would solve the problem. This is something on the lines I was arguing about many years ago. Solving overcrowding, by making more room is attempting to control something by positive feedback ..... always a bloody disaster You have to provide an alternative solution i.e. affordable housing and a negative pressure i.e. higher costs or stronger enforcement of moving/distance to discourage the status quo. Make it so that it is harder work and therefore off putting to those who only want accommodation. I don't live in London John, but not because it's exspensive mainly because of Londoners. But I've got friends who are born and bred that can no longer afford to live there, which seems strange. It just seems to me that these iwa preposals are just more gentrification. Kris, I was brought up in Brentwood Essex (at that time a nice, fairly quiet country town) It was a place that expanded rapidly and became something totally different (The only way is Essex heaven help us is mostly filmed in Brentwood) When I wanted a place of my own there was no way could I afford to live in Brentwood, I might have been able to raise the mortgage for a garden shed, but that was about it. I had to move out of the area ..... Kris, it has always happened and as long as there is a growing population it will continue to happen, Boating is not a totally separate world. The same pressures that act upon shore dwellers are going to act upon boat dwellers
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Post by naughtyfox on May 5, 2019 12:18:58 GMT
I have to wake up at 0520 tomorrow morning and drive 16 miles to work, drive a bus all day (which includes filling it with fuel and washing it at the end of the day by hand), and get home around 5pm - and the same on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, so that we can afford to pay for our boating.
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Post by peterboat on May 5, 2019 12:37:50 GMT
So only rich people are going to be allowed inside the m25 unless they are there to clean the toilets or clean the streets? Kris, it may have escaped your notice, but certain places in the country are much more expensive to live in than others. Why do you think living on a boat should be different ? If you wish to live cheaply then you seek out an area that is cheap to live in. It's quite simple really. This is one of the reasons I am in the East Riding and not in Chelsea. We both know that most of the problem in London is lack of cheap housing. A large number of people on boats are not there as a first choice of where and how to live, for some it may become a chosen way of life but the majority only do it because they have no other option. I have always been convinced that if there were no people available to do the humdrum and menial jobs in cities because there was nowhere for them to live then those that employ them or demand those services might then move themselves and their companies out of the city. That of course would solve the problem. This is something on the lines I was arguing about many years ago. Solving overcrowding, by making more room is attempting to control something by positive feedback ..... always a bloody disaster You have to provide an alternative solution i.e. affordable housing and a negative pressure i.e. higher costs or stronger enforcement of moving/distance to discourage the status quo. Make it so that it is harder work and therefore off putting to those who only want accommodation. You have hit the nail on the head John, If the poor people moved so would a proportion of the rich people a win win
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 16:53:06 GMT
Kris, it may have escaped your notice, but certain places in the country are much more expensive to live in than others. Why do you think living on a boat should be different ? If you wish to live cheaply then you seek out an area that is cheap to live in. It's quite simple really. This is one of the reasons I am in the East Riding and not in Chelsea. We both know that most of the problem in London is lack of cheap housing. A large number of people on boats are not there as a first choice of where and how to live, for some it may become a chosen way of life but the majority only do it because they have no other option. I have always been convinced that if there were no people available to do the humdrum and menial jobs in cities because there was nowhere for them to live then those that employ them or demand those services might then move themselves and their companies out of the city. That of course would solve the problem. This is something on the lines I was arguing about many years ago. Solving overcrowding, by making more room is attempting to control something by positive feedback ..... always a bloody disaster You have to provide an alternative solution i.e. affordable housing and a negative pressure i.e. higher costs or stronger enforcement of moving/distance to discourage the status quo. Make it so that it is harder work and therefore off putting to those who only want accommodation. I don't live in London John, but not because it's exspensive mainly because of Londoners. But I've got friends who are born and bred that can no longer afford to live there, which seems strange. It just seems to me that these iwa preposals are just more gentrification. I was born in Islington grew up there, went to first school there, worked there, got married there. I have never been able to afford to live there, moved out at 19 when I left home in 1971 never moved back. Tried to buy a in London in 1976 failed miserably as even on my exorbitant wages I couldn't afford it, ended up in Northamptonshire. Your warped perception might see it as "gentrification" but its not, its just the way things are and have been for 50 years. I could now just afford a flat in some parts of London but I wouldn't want to live there or in a flat.
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Post by kris on May 5, 2019 16:59:26 GMT
I don't live in London John, but not because it's exspensive mainly because of Londoners. But I've got friends who are born and bred that can no longer afford to live there, which seems strange. It just seems to me that these iwa preposals are just more gentrification. Your warped perception "Warped"?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 17:06:46 GMT
Yes you see a very very small charge to remain within an area as gentrification, implying its something new. Its not it has always been that way. The charge will be new but the way things are regards it being expensive are not.
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Post by JohnV on May 5, 2019 17:10:01 GMT
Where the hell have I left my set square
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 17:14:19 GMT
Yes you see a very very small charge to remain within an area as gentrification, implying its something new. Its not it has always been that way. The charge will be new but the way things are regards it being expensive are not. I'm amazed that you can still keep a boat in London without a mooring and pay less than a thousand pounds a year for a "relevant consent" and live on the boat. Its like boats have somehow escaped the laws of economics. Not saying it's bad and I have benefited from it myself but it is impressive none the less.
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Post by kris on May 5, 2019 17:14:38 GMT
Yes you see a very very small charge to remain within an area as gentrification, implying its something new. Its not it has always been that way. The charge will be new but the way things are regards it being expensive are not. So being against the introduction of an "extra" charge for something that I already pay for is warped is it?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 17:15:47 GMT
Are you coming down to London then? I'll buy you a gallon of beer if you are Eta beer shop prices not ripoff pubs you really would not want to see the price of beer in the pubs here !!
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Post by kris on May 5, 2019 17:18:58 GMT
Are you coming down to London then? I'll buy you a gallon of beer if you are Eta beer shop prices not ripoff pubs you really would not want to see the price of beer in the pubs here !! No, I'm talking about paying extra for mooring to the towpath. If it's introduced in London that will be just the start, it will soon be nationwide. So yes I'm against being charged again for something I already pay for, but apparently I'm warped.
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Post by JohnV on May 5, 2019 17:20:02 GMT
Yes you see a very very small charge to remain within an area as gentrification, implying its something new. Its not it has always been that way. The charge will be new but the way things are regards it being expensive are not. Its like boats have somehow escaped the laws of economics. Not saying it's bad and I have benefited from it myself but it is impressive none the less. Andrew, I think in some ways they almost have ..... it was ok when the numbers were small but like most things, when there gets to be a lot, it always seems to go tits up, more and more jump on the wagon and bang !!! I suppose we have been lucky to have had the time we have.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 17:21:32 GMT
kris Thats a bit silly really. How much of your "license" is the navigation and how much is the mooring? What value would you give to being able to moor your boat (and live on it)? Would you still keep your boat if it involved paying for a mooring in the way that people pay to live in houses or flats or would the increased costs put you back on land? Accommodation has costs. Its basic economics unless you are a pirate. Arrrr you a pirate?
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