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Post by JohnV on May 5, 2019 15:38:03 GMT
I wasn't sure if I should add this to one of Peterboat's threads but in the end I thought I would give it its own. It is fairly long and mostly applicable to Germany but I found it fascinating It has some very interesting points and the arguments about harm/not harm can always be a problem when listening to "experts" ..... for any theory you will always find opponents. However I did find the tests taken next to the Govt. monitoring station, around the city and particularly in the flat very compelling and I think there is probably more than a little hype being applied to the "extra low pollution zone" proponents (from 14.34 onward)I think like most of these type of things there is a heck of a lot more evangelistic fervour than fact in the campaigns
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Post by peterboat on May 5, 2019 17:47:38 GMT
I wasn't sure if I should add this to one of Peterboat's threads but in the end I thought I would give it its own. It is fairly long and mostly applicable to Germany but I found it fascinating It has some very interesting points and the arguments about harm/not harm can always be a problem when listening to "experts" ..... for any theory you will always find opponents. However I did find the tests taken next to the Govt. monitoring station, around the city and particularly in the flat very compelling and I think there is probably more than a little hype being applied to the "extra low pollution zone" proponents (from 14.34 onward)I think like most of these type of things there is a heck of a lot more evangelistic fervour than fact in the campaigns All research in favour of diesel cars paid for by german car makers that seem to favour diesel engines above all other engines In truth having seen DPFs blocked in a matter of weeks their really is a lot of crap produced by these engines! Its a fact and a nightmare for the owners who have so much hassle with them! As for gas boilers in the flats, nearly fell of my seat laffing!! They are balanced flue so that the very dangerous carbon monoxide goes outside, the whole thing was a joke and it just shows how desperate the Germans are, shame they didnt keep their nuclear reactors for making electric instead of going down the lignite and coal route, which both produce huge amounts of NOX and CO2 isnt it?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 18:09:59 GMT
Arguably massive pollution is a good thing because it has potential to kill off weaker humans in large numbers thus depopulating an overpopulated planet. The survivors will end up being more durable humans and better prepared to do the species survival thing when it gets arduous.
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Post by peterboat on May 5, 2019 18:15:38 GMT
Arguably massive pollution is a good thing because it has potential to kill off weaker humans in large numbers thus depopulating an overpopulated planet. The survivors will end up being more durable humans and better prepared to do the species survival thing when it gets arduous. And London gets most of that pollution!! so maybe one day the London boating problem will be gone as well
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 18:17:30 GMT
Meanwhile the pollution and deaths caused by electric vehicle production gets conveniently brushed under the carpet.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 18:19:06 GMT
Arguably massive pollution is a good thing because it has potential to kill off weaker humans in large numbers thus depopulating an overpopulated planet. The survivors will end up being more durable humans and better prepared to do the species survival thing when it gets arduous. And London gets most of that pollution!! so maybe one day the London boating problem will be gone as well Well the general idea is that if you are exposed to high levels of pollution you will get immunity and survive it. Its people who live in low pollution areas who will die out because they can't handle a bit of shit in the air.
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Post by kris on May 5, 2019 18:20:38 GMT
Meanwhile the pollution and deaths caused by electric vehicle production gets conveniently brushed under the carpet. Well here's your chance to let us all know about it, have you a link?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 18:21:42 GMT
Meanwhile the pollution and deaths caused by electric vehicle production gets conveniently brushed under the carpet. Well here's your chance to let us all know about it, have you a link? The evidence is readily available, do your own research.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 18:21:55 GMT
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Post by kris on May 5, 2019 18:27:22 GMT
Well here's your chance to let us all know about it, have you a link? The evidence is readily available, do your own research. That's a no then?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2019 18:32:22 GMT
The evidence is readily available, do your own research. That's a no then? Predictable as ever. Incorrect, its not a no. Do your own research.
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Post by JohnV on May 5, 2019 18:50:39 GMT
that was one of the points they brought up .... the sensors set next to traffic lights were also picking up particulates produced by tyres and brakes In spite of Peters laughing at it, there were some points that need to be checked out in more detail. For instance why were the levels in the flat higher than on the balcony ? also should there be a ban on burning candles in a built up area or having a gas hob ?. The problem is that there is spin on both sides (as always in a situation like this) and filtering out the facts from the spin is always hard. I have been trying to find out what are the Nitrous oxide levels produced by vintage diesel engines. Modern diesels have very high compression ratios and very high temperature burns, this causes more production of Nitrous oxides. Old engines were much less efficient and burned at much lower temperatures and therefore produce less. The problem is that no one seems to have either done tests or maybe just not published the results. My thinking has been that the particulate problem could be taken care of by exhaust gas washing and if the Nitrous oxide levels were low, it could well be that the old semi diesels might pass the low emission test levels
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 5, 2019 18:52:07 GMT
Can't beat a diesel...
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Post by peterboat on May 5, 2019 18:59:43 GMT
that was one of the points they brought up .... the sensors set next to traffic lights were also picking up particulates produced by tyres and brakes In spite of Peters laughing at it, there were some points that need to be checked out in more detail. For instance why were the levels in the flat higher than on the balcony ? also should there be a ban on burning candles in a built up area or having a gas hob ?. The problem is that there is spin on both sides (as always in a situation like this) and filtering out the facts from the spin is always hard. I have been trying to find out what are the Nitrous oxide levels produced by vintage diesel engines. Modern diesels have very high compression ratios and very high temperature burns, this causes more production of Nitrous oxides. Old engines were much less efficient and burned at much lower temperatures and therefore produce less. The problem is that no one seems to have either done tests or maybe just not published the results. My thinking has been that the particulate problem could be taken care of by exhaust gas washing and if the Nitrous oxide levels were low, it could well be that the old semi diesels might pass the low emission test levels Its the gas hob John and when I listened to the blurb he wasnt opening the doors much due to noise and fumes fro the diesel engines on the road.....................
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Post by kris on May 5, 2019 19:01:49 GMT
I have been trying to find out what are the Nitrous oxide levels produced by vintage diesel engines. Modern diesels have very high compression ratios and very high temperature burns, this causes more production of Nitrous oxides. Old engines were much less efficient and burned at much lower temperatures and therefore produce less. The problem is that no one seems to have either done tests or maybe just not published the results. My thinking has been that the particulate problem could be taken care of by exhaust gas washing and if the Nitrous oxide levels were low, it could well be that the old semi diesels might pass the low emission test levels This is very interesting John and something that needs pursuing. I remember posting a link on here sometime ago about water traps for Diesel engine exhausts that trap all particulates. Obviously you then have "contaminated" water to deal with but at least it isn't in the air.ill see if I can find the link.
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