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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 11:00:39 GMT
If I were you i would do some proper research into the feasibility of wholesale switch to electric vehicles. You seem to equate higher taxation and clean air charges that the green lobby stridently call for with logic, it isnt logical at all. Cheap motoring it might be for now.......only a fool would think that is set to continue. I take it you remember how people were incentivised to go diesel? Much like people are being incentivised to go electric now? How quickly things can change. I have done research, remember I am the one that is has been doing electric for a long while, while we are talking the biggest wind farm in the world is being built of Hull, which will make the wind farm of Kent the second biggest, do you follow my logic here? the infrastructure is already going in, also vehicle charging points are going in both at homes and on the street, things are happening and its electric The infrastucture does not simply include the ability to generate the electricity, it includes the capacity to carry it to homes and the currently virtually none existent charging points. So how about having a stab at answering the question about lost hmrc revenue by reduced fuel duty, still think it will as cheap to run an electric vehicle in the not too distant future? Of course it wont.
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Post by bargemast on May 6, 2019 11:34:21 GMT
I could quote you Kris, as there were endless vertical signs all over. But you're right about Amsterdam (where I was born a couple of years ago), public transport with trams has been very good and they had an early start with it already in 1875 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_AmsterdamAlso bicycle paths are everywhere and are well maintained, many other cities in the Netherlands have extensive bicycle paths too, and even next to many smaller country broads are bicycle paths. In less crowded areas bicycle paths will lead to busstops were schoolchildren and people that have to go to work can safely park their bicycles and hop on a bus that will bring them to the city. This way there's less need for long bicycle rides, and the same go's for cars, there are big free parkings where you can leave your car behind and car-pool with a few more people in one car to the city, or hop on a bus too. If there are enough convenient alternatives it will be so much easier to live without the permanent need for a car. Peter. I got the vertical lines from quoting John, so blame him for them. I've lived in the Netherlands a few times Peter, its always impressed me the way that the transport system is organised. Very refreshing for someone raised in England where all the towns and cities are arranged around motor vechiles. The public spaces are very conducive to living In and not all about commercial enterprise. I belive a lot of it is to do with one architect that I can't remember the name of. I really enjoyed my time in the Netherlands, not least because of all the boats and waterways. i do wonder what they are going to do about all the historic boats with their lovely Diesel engines though. I didn't know that you'd lived a few times in the Netherlands, in 3 months it will be 40 years that I've been living in France, and I must say that what I miss most in France is the variaty of boats and barges, the beautiful and properly maintained waterways that have a very important function for the Dutch economy, and the many shipyards for boat maintenance and boatbuilding, that apart from enormous sea going passenger ships is missing in France. If you're interested in the history of Amsterdam, this link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Amsterdam will tell you a lot, that is if you have enough GB's to spare. The architect you're thinking of (?) was maybe a certain Daniel Stalpaert. Peter.
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Post by kris on May 6, 2019 11:41:09 GMT
I got the vertical lines from quoting John, so blame him for them. I've lived in the Netherlands a few times Peter, its always impressed me the way that the transport system is organised. Very refreshing for someone raised in England where all the towns and cities are arranged around motor vechiles. The public spaces are very conducive to living In and not all about commercial enterprise. I belive a lot of it is to do with one architect that I can't remember the name of. I really enjoyed my time in the Netherlands, not least because of all the boats and waterways. i do wonder what they are going to do about all the historic boats with their lovely Diesel engines though. I didn't know that you'd lived a few times in the Netherlands, in 3 months it will be 40 years that I've been living in France, and I must say that what I miss most in France is the variaty of boats and barges, the beautiful and properly maintained waterways that have a very important function for the Dutch economy, and the many shipyards for boat maintenance and boatbuilding, that apart from enormous sea going passenger ships is missing in France. If you're interested in the history of Amsterdam, this link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Amsterdam will tell you a lot, that is if you have enough GB's to spare. The architect you're thinking of (?) was maybe a certain Daniel Stalpaert. Peter. Your maybe right about the architect Peter, anyway he did a good job and you can still see his philosophy in action in the Netherlands, it makes a big difference to the public spaces. If it wasnt so expensive I'd think about living in the Netherlands again, but hey ho. I'm in England for the foreseeable future. I do wonder what they are going to do about all the historic boats, surely they are going to be exempt it would be such a shame if they make them all change over to electric. I'm not so kean on France although I do like Brittany.
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Post by peterboat on May 6, 2019 12:13:13 GMT
I have done research, remember I am the one that is has been doing electric for a long while, while we are talking the biggest wind farm in the world is being built of Hull, which will make the wind farm of Kent the second biggest, do you follow my logic here? the infrastructure is already going in, also vehicle charging points are going in both at homes and on the street, things are happening and its electric The infrastucture does not simply include the ability to generate the electricity, it includes the capacity to carry it to homes and the currently virtually none existent charging points. So how about having a stab at answering the question about lost hmrc revenue by reduced fuel duty, still think it will as cheap to run an electric vehicle in the not too distant future? Of course it wont. If you opened your eyes you would see its already happening, when Jayne changed electricity suppliers they fitted a car charging point subsidised by the government and part paid for by Jayne. But you have blinkers on Martin you arnt seeing the things that are happening, because you want to run a diesel, and you will be able to, it will just cost you a fortune, and wont be allowed in towns and cities! Charging will be done by when you use the car of course, a little cheap satellite box that lets them know when you use the car, and confirmed by the thousands of number plate recognition cameras to stop fiddling easy peasy
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Post by bargemast on May 6, 2019 12:17:28 GMT
I didn't know that you'd lived a few times in the Netherlands, in 3 months it will be 40 years that I've been living in France, and I must say that what I miss most in France is the variaty of boats and barges, the beautiful and properly maintained waterways that have a very important function for the Dutch economy, and the many shipyards for boat maintenance and boatbuilding, that apart from enormous sea going passenger ships is missing in France. If you're interested in the history of Amsterdam, this link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Amsterdam will tell you a lot, that is if you have enough GB's to spare. The architect you're thinking of (?) was maybe a certain Daniel Stalpaert. Peter. Your maybe right about the architect Peter, anyway he did a good job and you can still see his philosophy in action in the Netherlands, it makes a big difference to the public spaces. If it wasnt so expensive I'd think about living in the Netherlands again, but hey ho. I'm in England for the foreseeable future. I do wonder what they are going to do about all the historic boats, surely they are going to be exempt it would be such a shame if they make them all change over to electric. I'm not so kean on France although I do like Brittany. AFAIK for the smaller (under 20m) Dutch barges there is an exemption for the use of their beautiful old engines, but for the ones of over 20m, if they haven't bothered getting their inspection for the EU certificate, they will now have to be conform the rules for brand new barges, which involves in huge costs and also in many cases the impossibility to adapt everything to these rules, which makes them virtually unsellable. Here's a list with the requirements, www.cesni.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ES_TRIN_2017_en.pdf be warned however that after (or while) reading this, you may feel the need to jump overboard without a self-inflating life-jacket (with-or without the crotch-strap). Peter.
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Post by peterboat on May 6, 2019 12:19:58 GMT
I didn't know that you'd lived a few times in the Netherlands, in 3 months it will be 40 years that I've been living in France, and I must say that what I miss most in France is the variaty of boats and barges, the beautiful and properly maintained waterways that have a very important function for the Dutch economy, and the many shipyards for boat maintenance and boatbuilding, that apart from enormous sea going passenger ships is missing in France. If you're interested in the history of Amsterdam, this link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Amsterdam will tell you a lot, that is if you have enough GB's to spare. The architect you're thinking of (?) was maybe a certain Daniel Stalpaert. Peter. Your maybe right about the architect Peter, anyway he did a good job and you can still see his philosophy in action in the Netherlands, it makes a big difference to the public spaces. If it wasnt so expensive I'd think about living in the Netherlands again, but hey ho. I'm in England for the foreseeable future. I do wonder what they are going to do about all the historic boats, surely they are going to be exempt it would be such a shame if they make them all change over to electric. I'm not so kean on France although I do like Brittany. If i am honest Kris I dont think the powers at give give us a second thought! Same with historic boats in Amsterdam if I remember rightly they all had to be converted to electric regardless of what history it had, same in Copenhagen I think and they are banning all electric cars this year www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj-ppKy8YbiAhViqHEKHbjtAcgQFjAKegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Fcopenhagen-diesel-cars-ban-2019-mayor-plan-denmark-capital-environment-air-pollution-emissions-a7994611.html&usg=AOvVaw1as5uL9wPQKvluVrnIzvgn
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 12:23:45 GMT
The infrastucture does not simply include the ability to generate the electricity, it includes the capacity to carry it to homes and the currently virtually none existent charging points. So how about having a stab at answering the question about lost hmrc revenue by reduced fuel duty, still think it will as cheap to run an electric vehicle in the not too distant future? Of course it wont. If you opened your eyes you would see its already happening, when Jayne changed electricity suppliers they fitted a car charging point subsidised by the government and part paid for by Jayne. But you have blinkers on Martin you arnt seeing the things that are happening, because you want to run a diesel, and you will be able to, it will just cost you a fortune, and wont be allowed in towns and cities! Charging will be done by when you use the car of course, a little cheap satellite box that lets them know when you use the car, and confirmed by the thousands of number plate recognition cameras to stop fiddling easy peasy This country will not fork out billions on technology to fund electric cars. The money will come from their owners. No offence intended Peter, and I'm sorry to piss on your parade, but an electric car owner will end up paying out more than a combustible one. I heard all the same shit about diesel, now it's dearer than petrol. Electricity will go the same way, and the Chinese will own the world.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 6, 2019 12:31:39 GMT
The infrastucture does not simply include the ability to generate the electricity, it includes the capacity to carry it to homes and the currently virtually none existent charging points. So how about having a stab at answering the question about lost hmrc revenue by reduced fuel duty, still think it will as cheap to run an electric vehicle in the not too distant future? Of course it wont. If you opened your eyes you would see its already happening, when Jayne changed electricity suppliers they fitted a car charging point subsidised by the government and part paid for by Jayne. But you have blinkers on Martin you arnt seeing the things that are happening, because you want to run a diesel, and you will be able to, it will just cost you a fortune, and wont be allowed in towns and cities! Charging will be done by when you use the car of course, a little cheap satellite box that lets them know when you use the car, and confirmed by the thousands of number plate recognition cameras to stop fiddling easy peasy Not viable on heavy vehicles though such as articulated lorries. One litre of diesel is the equivalent of 10 kWh. A 300 mile trip uses around 160 litres or 1600 kWh. Batteries give 0.17 kWh per kg. Therefore the truck would need 9.4 tonnes of batteries.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 12:40:21 GMT
If you opened your eyes you would see its already happening, when Jayne changed electricity suppliers they fitted a car charging point subsidised by the government and part paid for by Jayne. But you have blinkers on Martin you arnt seeing the things that are happening, because you want to run a diesel, and you will be able to, it will just cost you a fortune, and wont be allowed in towns and cities! Charging will be done by when you use the car of course, a little cheap satellite box that lets them know when you use the car, and confirmed by the thousands of number plate recognition cameras to stop fiddling easy peasy Not viable on heavy vehicles though such as articulated lorries. One litre of diesel is the equivalent of 10 kWh. A 300 mile trip uses around 160 litres or 1600 kWh. Batteries give 0.17 kWh per kg. Therefore the truck would need 9.4 tonnes of batteries. Exactly this. ^^^^^^^^ It'll take a bit more than garden shed bodge ups to get around this.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 12:50:45 GMT
The infrastucture does not simply include the ability to generate the electricity, it includes the capacity to carry it to homes and the currently virtually none existent charging points. So how about having a stab at answering the question about lost hmrc revenue by reduced fuel duty, still think it will as cheap to run an electric vehicle in the not too distant future? Of course it wont. If you opened your eyes you would see its already happening, when Jayne changed electricity suppliers they fitted a car charging point subsidised by the government and part paid for by Jayne. But you have blinkers on Martin you arnt seeing the things that are happening, because you want to run a diesel, and you will be able to, it will just cost you a fortune, and wont be allowed in towns and cities! Charging will be done by when you use the car of course, a little cheap satellite box that lets them know when you use the car, and confirmed by the thousands of number plate recognition cameras to stop fiddling easy peasy My euro 6.2 compliant diesel is the cleanest vehicle i could afford and the ban on cities, when it comes to cleaner diesels like mine wont affect me because i dont live in a city and i rarely if ever drive in one, opting to use public transport where possible. Current electric vehicles type approved for towing are out of my reach financially unfortunately and are set to remain so for some time. Electric vehicles will need to tumble in price before they are adopted universally.
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Post by peterboat on May 6, 2019 13:08:47 GMT
If you opened your eyes you would see its already happening, when Jayne changed electricity suppliers they fitted a car charging point subsidised by the government and part paid for by Jayne. But you have blinkers on Martin you arnt seeing the things that are happening, because you want to run a diesel, and you will be able to, it will just cost you a fortune, and wont be allowed in towns and cities! Charging will be done by when you use the car of course, a little cheap satellite box that lets them know when you use the car, and confirmed by the thousands of number plate recognition cameras to stop fiddling easy peasy Not viable on heavy vehicles though such as articulated lorries. One litre of diesel is the equivalent of 10 kWh. A 300 mile trip uses around 160 litres or 1600 kWh. Batteries give 0.17 kWh per kg. Therefore the truck would need 9.4 tonnes of batteries. Unfortunately you are wrong batteries on test are currently four times more power dense than that and are cheaper than current batteries, so a couple of tons will be whats required changes things doesnt it?
Things are changing, me I just accept it because I know we cant fight it, anyway Tesla seem to think electric semis work and so do the companies that are ordering them
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Post by JohnV on May 6, 2019 13:17:58 GMT
If you opened your eyes you would see its already happening, when Jayne changed electricity suppliers they fitted a car charging point subsidised by the government and part paid for by Jayne. But you have blinkers on Martin you arnt seeing the things that are happening, because you want to run a diesel, and you will be able to, it will just cost you a fortune, and wont be allowed in towns and cities! Charging will be done by when you use the car of course, a little cheap satellite box that lets them know when you use the car, and confirmed by the thousands of number plate recognition cameras to stop fiddling easy peasy Not viable on heavy vehicles though such as articulated lorries. One litre of diesel is the equivalent of 10 kWh. A 300 mile trip uses around 160 litres or 1600 kWh. Batteries give 0.17 kWh per kg. Therefore the truck would need 9.4 tonnes of batteries. It might not be as long as you think though Vince, there are some batteries already in prototype production that have a power density per kilo over 5 times greater than the best current Lithiums. There is massive amounts of money being pumped into battery research and development and there are three or four new types of batteries in development that I know about. I do wonder how many more there are that I haven't heard about.
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Post by ianali on May 6, 2019 14:15:40 GMT
Not viable on heavy vehicles though such as articulated lorries. One litre of diesel is the equivalent of 10 kWh. A 300 mile trip uses around 160 litres or 1600 kWh. Batteries give 0.17 kWh per kg. Therefore the truck would need 9.4 tonnes of batteries. It might not be as long as you think though Vince, there are some batteries already in prototype production that have a power density per kilo over 5 times greater than the best current Lithiums. There is massive amounts of money being pumped into battery research and development and there are three or four new types of batteries in development that I know about. I do wonder how many more there are that I haven't heard about. The majority of people will only become interested when electric vehicles are proven and available at a similar price to petrol/diesels. I’d guess 10 to 15 years away.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 14:18:44 GMT
It might not be as long as you think though Vince, there are some batteries already in prototype production that have a power density per kilo over 5 times greater than the best current Lithiums. There is massive amounts of money being pumped into battery research and development and there are three or four new types of batteries in development that I know about. I do wonder how many more there are that I haven't heard about. The majority of people will only become interested when electric vehicles are proven and available at a similar price to petrol/diesels. I’d guess 10 to 15 years away. And they go more than 10 miles between charges. I of course exagerate but the point remains. Range on pure electric vehicles remains crap. Mild, full and self charging Hybrids will remain the electric vehicle of choice for decades yet.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 6, 2019 16:00:02 GMT
If you opened your eyes you would see its already happening, when Jayne changed electricity suppliers they fitted a car charging point subsidised by the government and part paid for by Jayne. But you have blinkers on Martin you arnt seeing the things that are happening, because you want to run a diesel, and you will be able to, it will just cost you a fortune, and wont be allowed in towns and cities! Charging will be done by when you use the car of course, a little cheap satellite box that lets them know when you use the car, and confirmed by the thousands of number plate recognition cameras to stop fiddling easy peasy and the Chinese will own the world. The Arabs own half of London already, the Americans own Cadbury's, and the Germans are running half the UK railways. I think the Scots still own the Stone of Scone, so they're doing all right.
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