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Post by Telemachus on Aug 4, 2019 20:22:20 GMT
What I now have to find out is whether big spring tides make re-entry into Selby from the river on ebb, significantly harder, or not. Because it looks like we will be returning on the next spring phase. I’ll phone the lockie tomorrow. if you follow the normal pattern of leaving Naburn it can be ...... Naburn only operates to a certain time pattern around the tides It might be your ideal time to leave is outside of those hours. This was the case when I left Naburn in Sabina H. I needed to leave on the last of the ebb in order to go through Selby at the top of the tide. (I didn't fancy rounding up, stemming the tide until the bridges opened (the road and rail bridge synchronise their opening) and then dropping down stern first (yes I will accept the name wimp) what I did was drop down through the lock on the last available time the afternoon before. There is a pontoon mooring just below the lock. Peterboat joined me there and we left just after first light the next morning at low water. If you can time your arrival to coincide with the top of the tide then entry is easy ...... on the ebb on a big tide .... well !!! there are some interesting videos around But doesn’t that mean you are against the current during the trip?
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Post by JohnV on Aug 4, 2019 20:37:02 GMT
yes but you pays your money and takes your choice ...... a fair bit of course is low tide and you are running with the river flow .... remember that the flood is shorter than the ebb. I chose to use more diesel but get past the section I was most concerned about at the best and easiest time of the tide. (there was also a fair bit of fresh as well) you obviously know to turn round downsteam of the lock then ferry glide back up at an angle tight up to the downstream knuckle of lock mouth, hard over bags of power and in ...... usually then going hard astern to try and stop (of course that ignores the fact I cocked it up further down and ended up on the putty waiting the flood and then had to go through the Goole railway bridge in the dark against a very big flood tide ....... definitely squeaky bum time.)
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Post by JohnV on Aug 4, 2019 20:50:42 GMT
just to add .... I don't mean to be alarmist ..... many people arrive at Selby with a tide running ..... but you stipulated a big tide
It is not worth going at a time when conditions are not best favourable ..... I had enough of rough waters and bad conditions when I was being paid to do it .... nowadays if it's not good conditions I prefer to be near the pub ..... as I love saying .... pleasure boating should be pleasurable
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 4, 2019 21:47:41 GMT
just to add .... I don't mean to be alarmist ..... many people arrive at Selby with a tide running ..... but you stipulated a big tide It is not worth going at a time when conditions are not best favourable ..... I had enough of rough waters and bad conditions when I was being paid to do it .... nowadays if it's not good conditions I prefer to be near the pub ..... as I love saying .... pleasure boating should be pleasurable My question is really, to what extent (in terms of %mph) is the ebb stronger on a spring than on a neap. At first glance one might presume that it would be much stronger, but I’m not so sure it is that simple. Obviously the flood is going to be much stronger as it is all compressed into a couple of hours. But the ebb runs for 10 hours or so, so surely that means any increase in flow is relatively minor. And of course up river, low water on a spring is (counter intuitively) higher than low water on a neap, which implies that the ebb doesn’t flow much or any faster. By comparison of course, near the sea the ebb and flood will both be stronger on a spring than a neap. All that is just my guesswork, obviously people know the reality - but I’m not one of them!
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 4, 2019 21:51:58 GMT
you obviously know to turn round downsteam of the lock then ferry glide back up at an angle tight up to the downstream knuckle of lock mouth, hard over bags of power and in ...... usually then going hard astern to try and stop Surely on the ebb one turns round upstream of the lock then drift backwards (slowly forwards through the water, but overall backwards) to abeam the lock - ending up with bow near the upstream lock wall, then turn in etc?
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Post by JohnV on Aug 4, 2019 22:17:40 GMT
you obviously know to turn round downsteam of the lock then ferry glide back up at an angle tight up to the downstream knuckle of lock mouth, hard over bags of power and in ...... usually then going hard astern to try and stop Surely on the ebb one turns round upstream of the lock then drift backwards (slowly forwards through the water, but overall backwards) to abeam the lock - ending up with bow near the upstream lock wall, then turn in etc? yes but I am unsure how quickly you can round up your narrowboat In a very short space of time you will have come round a sharp bend by the mills under (or through depending on the height of tide) the road bridge followed about 150 yards later by the rail bridge and then turn round before you do the 200 or so metres before the lock entrance ..... they all appear rather fast the distance you travel while rounding up can be quite disconcerting I suspect many are well past the lock before they are fully round (at 5 kts that's what a minute and a quarter ?)
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 4, 2019 22:28:25 GMT
Surely on the ebb one turns round upstream of the lock then drift backwards (slowly forwards through the water, but overall backwards) to abeam the lock - ending up with bow near the upstream lock wall, then turn in etc? yes but I am unsure how quickly you can round up your narrowboat In a very short space of time you will have come round a sharp bend by the mills under (or through depending on the height of tide) the road bridge followed about 150 yards later by the rail bridge and then turn round before you do the 200 or so metres before the lock entrance ..... they all appear rather fast the distance you travel while rounding up can be quite disconcerting I suspect many are well past the lock before they are fully round (at 5 kts that's what a minute and a quarter ?) Yes you could be right, but I think that is what to aim for. Bringing speed through water back to very low before initiating the turn will help. Is the rail bridge not wide enough to contemplate initiating the turn before/during its transit? edit: no, I see from street view it has a central pillar.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 22:33:16 GMT
Most dissapointing that Dunkley the 'font of all knowledge' decided to be be a 24k twat and withhold his 'great, enduring and all encompassing knowledge of tidal waterways'.
But good that others have offered help.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 4, 2019 22:36:52 GMT
Most dissapointing that Dunkley the 'font of all knowledge' decided to be be a 24k twat and withhold his 'great, enduring and all encompassing knowledge of tidal waterways'. But good that others have offered help. Yes it doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of boaters helping boaters. But then again, perhaps he doesn’t have much experience of that particular stretch. Doesn’t really matter though. We managed it in 1974 without his help (when he was a young thing of 45), on a much less powerful boat, and I expect we will manage it again.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 22:41:37 GMT
Most dissapointing that Dunkley the 'font of all knowledge' decided to be be a 24k twat and withhold his 'great, enduring and all encompassing knowledge of tidal waterways'. But good that others have offered help. Yes it doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of boaters helping boaters. But then again, perhaps he doesn’t have much experience of that particular stretch. Doesn’t really matter though. We managed it in 1974 without his help (when he was a young thing of 45), on a much less powerful boat, and I expect we will manage it again. I think he was probably just trrying to be a clever twat, then moved on to the need to change his inco. pad and then forgot. Knowledge is a precious commodity, but its worth nothing if you are not willing to freely share it.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 4, 2019 22:43:56 GMT
just to add .... I don't mean to be alarmist ..... many people arrive at Selby with a tide running ..... but you stipulated a big tide It is not worth going at a time when conditions are not best favourable ..... I had enough of rough waters and bad conditions when I was being paid to do it .... nowadays if it's not good conditions I prefer to be near the pub ..... as I love saying .... pleasure boating should be pleasurable My question is really, to what extent (in terms of %mph) is the ebb stronger on a spring than on a neap. At first glance one might presume that it would be much stronger, but I’m not so sure it is that simple. Obviously the flood is going to be much stronger as it is all compressed into a couple of hours. But the ebb runs for 10 hours or so, so surely that means any increase in flow is relatively minor. And of course up river, low water on a spring is (counter intuitively) higher than low water on a neap, which implies that the ebb doesn’t flow much or any faster. By comparison of course, near the sea the ebb and flood will both be stronger on a spring than a neap. All that is just my guesswork, obviously people know the reality - but I’m not one of them! as regards how big the difference in speeds between springs and neaps ..... to be honest I don't know I do know that at Selby the flood is faster than the ebb (at least in non flood conditions) and on spring tides can be up to 8 knots
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 4, 2019 22:46:49 GMT
My question is really, to what extent (in terms of %mph) is the ebb stronger on a spring than on a neap. At first glance one might presume that it would be much stronger, but I’m not so sure it is that simple. Obviously the flood is going to be much stronger as it is all compressed into a couple of hours. But the ebb runs for 10 hours or so, so surely that means any increase in flow is relatively minor. And of course up river, low water on a spring is (counter intuitively) higher than low water on a neap, which implies that the ebb doesn’t flow much or any faster. By comparison of course, near the sea the ebb and flood will both be stronger on a spring than a neap. All that is just my guesswork, obviously people know the reality - but I’m not one of them! as regards how big the difference in speeds between springs and neaps ..... to be honest I don't know I do know that at Selby the flood is faster than the ebb (at least in non flood conditions) and on spring tides can be up to 8 knotsWell I think it must be (assuming little fresh) because of the time difference between flood and ebb. Lockie said the last 1/2 metre of the spring made a big difference to the flood speed. We hadn’t discussed the return /ebb situation yet, I’ll call him tomorrow.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 4, 2019 22:58:40 GMT
The lockies won't let you out unless they think it safe, and although Tony is sometimes a bit scathing they are both proper lockies and have been doing it a while.
Everybody seems to make it relatively undamaged (although I think some need new underwear) although I did hear of one who missed Selby completely and ended up aground way down stream near Boothferry bridge and was eventually rescued and towed to Goole by Humber Rescue
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 4, 2019 23:08:56 GMT
The lockies won't let you out unless they think it safe, and although Tony is sometimes a bit scathing they are both proper lockies and have been doing it a while. Everybody seems to make it relatively undamaged (although I think some need new underwear) although I did hear of one who missed Selby completely and ended up aground way down stream near Boothferry bridge and was eventually rescued and towed to Goole by Humber Rescue Plenty of people can’t even drive into a lock cleanly when there is no current!
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Post by JohnV on Aug 4, 2019 23:17:25 GMT
The lockies won't let you out unless they think it safe, and although Tony is sometimes a bit scathing they are both proper lockies and have been doing it a while. Everybody seems to make it relatively undamaged (although I think some need new underwear) although I did hear of one who missed Selby completely and ended up aground way down stream near Boothferry bridge and was eventually rescued and towed to Goole by Humber Rescue Plenty of people can’t even drive into a lock cleanly when there is no current! It's when a volockie puts them off
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