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Post by TonyDunkley on Aug 5, 2019 7:07:49 GMT
Most dissapointing that Dunkley the 'font of all knowledge' decided to be be a 24k twat and withhold his 'great, enduring and all encompassing knowledge of tidal waterways'. But good that others have offered help. Yes it doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of boaters helping boaters. But then again, perhaps he doesn’t have much experience of that particular stretch. Doesn’t really matter though. We managed it in 1974 without his help (when he was a young thing of 45), on a much less powerful boat, and I expect we will manage it again. Had you refrained from directing stupid, smart-arse remarks at me on page 1 of this thread (quote: Ah well, I guess you don’t know, otherwise you would have been jumping up and down like Donkey in Shrek trying to tell me. Never mind, I’ll make more effort to get hold of the lockie tomorrow.) I would have gladly provided the help you asked for in regard to passage between Selby and Naburn in BOTH directions, as I have done for numerous others from this forum and elsewhere. You're obviously unaware of the fact that for many years I have provided a pilotage service to pleasure craft on the Humber, Trent, and Ouse. The service is available in and at several different forms and levels, from taking charge on board throughout to 'real time' advice and guidance via VHF, or nowadays, by mobile phone as a follow-up to initial advice on departure times, procedures, and anticipated hazards. There is in fact one such recipient of my services who appears to have taken pity on you, and is providing you with what help he can via participation in this thread.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Aug 5, 2019 7:27:40 GMT
Yes, Father Jack Nick, . . I know ! Ah well, I guess you don’t know, otherwise you would have been jumping up and down like Donkey in Shrek trying to tell me. Never mind, I’ll make more effort to get hold of the lockie tomorrow. In light of the difficulties that you and MJG are having in recalling what I did respond to you with on page 1 of this thread, here is the entire post once again. The last paragraph does in fact refer to the man John has mentioned at the bottom of page 4 in connection with the lock keepers at Selby and Naburn. He survived their help and advice without serious damage to his boat or injury, or worse, to himself by nothing but sheer luck : Silly sod, . . do you really think that an infantile jibe like that is going to get you what you want ?
When big tides coincide with significant quantities of 'fresh' in the upper Ouse the most serious potential hazard is not to be found around Selby, or Naburn, but at the swingbridge at Cawood, where in certain circumstances, ie. too late leaving Selby or delayed on passage for any reason, you could find yourself being pushed along on a very swift tide towards a bridge, hidden just round a fairly blind bend, and with as little as 4' - 5' of clearance under it. Yesterday morning's tide (2 August) left only about 5' 9'' clearance under Cawood Bridge at local HW, and the predicted tide height for Monday morning (5 August) is (+) 3cm on yesterday's tide at Hull. The biggest tide in this fortnightly cycle of Springs is predicted for 8.3m at Hull on Sunday morning 4 August, . . only 2 x tides before you plan to be on the Ouse, and big enough for aegres in both the Trent and the Ouse !
The C&RT lock keepers on the Ouse at Naburn and Selby have a less than glittering track record in advising ditchcrawlers making passage between Selby and Naburn on occasions when big Spring tides and fresh can make things downright dangerous for those without the requisite knowledge and experience of what can be one of the most difficult stretches of tidal river in the UK, so bear that in mind when you're listening to what they're going to tell you.
You could do worse than having a look at this and the links in it too ;
< www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/75976-narrowboat-stuck-in-the-humber/page/1/ >
. . . it's about a man with canal boat who was advised and sent on his way to Selby by the Naburn lock keeper on a big Spring tide plus some 'fresh'. Watched by the Cawood bridge keeper, who had not been told to expect him, he was very nearly decapitated as his boat was swept uncontrollably under the bridge with a matter of only a few inches clearance above the cabin top, and then after being unable to get into Selby Lock because of the rate the Ebb was running down, he ended up dried out on the shoal between Boothferry Bridge and the M62 bridge before being towed into Goole on the next tide by Humber Rescue.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 5, 2019 7:37:15 GMT
Ah well, I guess you don’t know, otherwise you would have been jumping up and down like Donkey in Shrek trying to tell me. Never mind, I’ll make more effort to get hold of the lockie tomorrow.
. . . it's about a man with canal boat who was advised and sent on his way to Selby by the Naburn lock keeper on a big Spring tide plus some 'fresh'. Watched by the Cawood bridge keeper, who had not been told to expect him, he was very nearly decapitated as his boat was swept uncontrollably under the bridge with a matter of only a few inches clearance above the cabin top, and then after being unable to get into Selby Lock because of the rate the Ebb was running down, he ended up dried out on the shoal between Boothferry Bridge and the M62 bridge before being towed into Goole on the next tide by Humber Rescue.
Dammit .... I'm getting forgetful Tony ..... I knew I had heard the story recently but couldn't recall where and repeated it (with bits missing) in the same thread Doh !!!
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 5, 2019 7:56:07 GMT
Stories of doom and gloom - one off near misses - aren’t helpful, unless the aim is to put me off making the trip at all. A large number of people make the trip successfully without your help, it seems likely that I will be one of them. Unless of course you decide you would like to be helpful - up to you.
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Post by kris on Aug 5, 2019 8:02:13 GMT
Stories of doom and gloom - one off near misses - aren’t helpful, unless the aim is to put me off making the trip at all. A large number of people make the trip successfully without your help, it seems likely that I will be one of them. Unless of course you decide you would like to be helpful - up to you. Tony isn't obliged to help you Nick,trying to emmontionally blackmail him is pitiful. Why don't you just ask for his help nicely and say please.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 8:07:20 GMT
I thought the point TD was making about big tides was helpful.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 5, 2019 8:11:53 GMT
Stories of doom and gloom - one off near misses - aren’t helpful, unless the aim is to put me off making the trip at all. A large number of people make the trip successfully without your help, it seems likely that I will be one of them. Unless of course you decide you would like to be helpful - up to you. Tony isn't obliged to help you Nick,trying to emmontionally blackmail him is pitiful. Why don't you just ask for his help nicely and say please. Of course he isn’t. The vast vast majority of people make the trip without his help. My OP was “asking nicely”, in my second post I said “please”, but he chose to reply with unhelpful sarcasm, followed by scaremongering. Up to him, if that is how he wants to play it I will just slot in with the other hundreds of people who make the trip not ever having heard of him. Perhaps I should have said “Oh pretty pretty please oh please” and offered him a blow job in return. But I decided against that.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 5, 2019 8:13:57 GMT
I thought the point TD was making about big tides was helpful. Not particularly. None of my specific questions were answered and anyway, the lock keeper advised against travel at the big spring.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 5, 2019 8:26:49 GMT
I thought the point TD was making about big tides was helpful. Not particularly. None of my specific questions were answered and anyway, the lock keeper advised against travel at the big spring. in other words said the same as Tony Sorry Nick but you really do have an extremely abrasive manner on t'internet
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 5, 2019 8:31:31 GMT
Not particularly. None of my specific questions were answered and anyway, the lock keeper advised against travel at the big spring. in other words said the same as Tony Sorry Nick but you really do have an extremely abrasive manner on t'internet What, and you don’t!!?
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Post by JohnV on Aug 5, 2019 8:41:07 GMT
in other words said the same as Tony Sorry Nick but you really do have an extremely abrasive manner on t'internet What, and you don’t!!? that is a rather childish retort I don't think I have generally ...... one or two people irritate me and that probably shows (if I bother to reply to them)
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Post by duncan on Aug 5, 2019 9:03:01 GMT
I thought the point TD was making about big tides was helpful. Not particularly. None of my specific questions were answered and anyway, the lock keeper advised against travel at the big spring. It is probably fair to say that the information you need has been given to you by JohnV and TD, but perhaps not in the way you want to see it. I don't know your boat, or how powerful it is, but my thoughts are that the tidal Ouse is not the place for narrow boats to be on big spring tides, both flood and ebb. As JohnV said, ideally you would want to be at Selby at high water to make it easy to get into the lock, but then, as TD said, that gives you issues with headroom under the bridges. Once it starts running out I wouldn't be surprised if it is doing 4 knots through Selby. That will be your minimum speed through the bridges, you will need to be going faster than the tide to maintain steerage. The lock is less than half a mile below the bridge so even if you start your turn as soon as you clear the last bridge you don't have much time to complete the turn before you are swept past the lock going sideways at 4 knots. I have never handled a narrow boat, but I would imagine that trying to bring a bow around which is 59' away from the rudder, while the tide is pushing the bow the opposite way, will not be straight forward.
Bridges - I don't know what the height of the tide is when you are thinking of, but if you are getting into the realms of minimum clearance under the bridges then that opens up another can of worms.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Aug 5, 2019 9:37:30 GMT
Tony isn't obliged to help you Nick,trying to emmontionally blackmail him is pitiful. Why don't you just ask for his help nicely and say please. Of course he isn’t. The vast vast majority of people make the trip without his help. My OP was “asking nicely”, in my second post I said “please”, but he chose to reply with unhelpful sarcasm, followed by scaremongering. . . . . . . . . . . . . You couldn't be more wrong about that ! Since the incident in early May 2015 when the canal boat despatched from Naburn on a big Spring tide plus a significant quantity of 'fresh' in the river had to be towed into Goole by Humber Rescue, every pleasure boat making the Selby-Naburn/Naburn-Selby passage has benefited, albeit indirectly, from my help. With the support of North Yorkshire Council, who operate Cawood, Selby Toll, and Selby By-pass (swing) Bridges, and Railtrack, who operate Selby Rail (swing) Bridge, I took C&RT to task over their then sloppy and irresponsible practice of sending pleasure on their way to or from either Selby or Naburn in potentially very dangerous and unsuitable conditions, and without any knowledge or advice as to what to expect once they were on passage. In co-operation with the EA, who have a river level recorder at Cawood Bridge, and the Bridge Authorities, a method was devised by which the Selby and Naburn lock keepers could advise pleasure craft of the probable air draught they could expect to find on arrival at Cawood from a table of tide heights for any given time of penning at Selby or Naburn in times of flood and/or Spring tides. The advice you were given the other day with regard to avoiding passage on the biggest tides is a direct result of my intervention in making C&RT's so-called management aware of the responsibilities they were shirking, and the very real concerns of the authority responsible for Cawood Bridge. The May 2015 incident at Cawood with the pleasure boater who nearly decapitated himself was at the time the latest in a long history of alarming 'near goes' in similar circumstances, all of which had caused a great deal of distress to the bridge keepers, to say nothing of the effect on the boaters themselves.
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Post by Telemachus on Aug 5, 2019 12:22:18 GMT
Very commendable Tony. Allow me to rephrase then: “without his help:” should be “without his direct help, or any help at all prior to 2015”.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 12:31:30 GMT
If you are concerned about this lock then maybe the thing to do is get some volunteers to assist you! Perhaps put them on cabin top so they can stand there and look out for this low swing bridge. If it is judged to be too low they can be trained to shout "STOP THERE".
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