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Post by Clinton Cool on Sept 29, 2019 16:47:42 GMT
I had a girlfriend when I lived in Indonesia who was a pretty staunch Muslim. She was totally adamant that god exists, she stated it was a proven fact. So I suppose you could say it is possible to prove something, but only to some people. To other people, ones like me, it's all a load of bollocks. All religions are faiths, and the whole point of a faith is that it is something which people believe in, the existence of which cannot be proven. They may be beliefs to us but to many practicing them, they are facts.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 29, 2019 16:58:50 GMT
How do we know bacteria don't have a consciousness? Perhaps some of those bacteria in your duodenum are planning a party in Benidorm? Do animals such as cats and dogs have consciousness, self-awareness? Do they think? what do you think? I think it's an interesting subject, the "Who am I?" theme. It really does feel as if we have a 'soul' and a 'body'. I have never heard an answer to this, or a good explanation. Let's face it, all other animals are thick, they just follow the run of their genetic codes telling them how to behave. Crocodiles have done fuck all for 400 million years, just breed and wallow in the mud. At some point in human evolution there has been a switching, either suddenly or gradual, and 'thinking' came into being. The study of life is fascinating. Just why do bacteria exist.... they themselves are such complicated structures. If they had a consciousness, wouldn't they think "Oh sod it, I have no future of interest" and try to kill themselves as it's all so pointless? How about every cell in the human body - are they with consciousness? Billions of them all working together to make one human. Even with all this firepower and millions of years of evolution behind it, so many humans are stupid. Perhaps one day one will be born who will have the insight into all this, as Neo in The Matrix who can see the Code.
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Post by bodger on Sept 29, 2019 17:01:18 GMT
reverting to the original question. I firmly believe that there is heaven and hell, but it is not a place that our souls go to. It is entirely in the minds and memories of everyone who knew you while you were living.
I cannot imagine anything closer to hell than dying having left bitter memories of me with my children and friends. Once dead there will be nothing I can do to repair the damage. That would be hell for me.
Dying in the sure knowledge that my family and friends had pleasant memories of me would allow me to die with nothing on my conscience and I will be in a happy place. That would be heaven.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 29, 2019 17:05:45 GMT
How do we know bacteria don't have a consciousness? Perhaps some of those bacteria in your duodenum are planning a party in Benidorm? Do animals such as cats and dogs have consciousness, self-awareness? Do they think? We humans are grossly arrogant if we believe we are special Humans are special simply because they can have the thought that they are special! Do other animals (or plants? can plants think?) think they are special?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 17:05:49 GMT
and millions of years of evolution behind it, so many humans are stupid. You are overthinking this.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 17:07:24 GMT
Plants can definitely sort things out you only have to look at the way they spread their seeds. Anemophilous is a classic. How the hell do they know it's going to be windy? Then you get thorns. And burrs that stick to fur.
Humans have the obvious problem of thinking that they are able to think. They actually aren't able to do this at all. No more than a flea or a pea is able to.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 29, 2019 17:11:25 GMT
and millions of years of evolution behind it, so many humans are stupid. You are overthinking this. But it is something fun to think about, that we are made of the products of exploding stars, and have around 2 billion years of evolution behind us. We fit into this world because we are part of it. We have developed our immune and other defense systems to align with the threats we have had to face here for all those years. And yet some viruses can still get us!
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 29, 2019 17:12:55 GMT
No more than a flea or a pea is able to. I haven't seen any fleas driving boats down the Thames.
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Post by bodger on Sept 29, 2019 17:13:43 GMT
Humans have the obvious problem of thinking that they are able to think. They actually aren't able to do this at all. No more than a flea or a pea is able to. remind me next time you post that this is no more than the random rambling of an empty mind.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 17:16:08 GMT
No more than a flea or a pea is able to. I haven't seen any fleas driving boats down the Thames. Driving a boat down the Thames is completely pointless in evolutionary terms. It is merely a diversion.
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Post by naughtyfox on Sept 29, 2019 17:18:47 GMT
Something to do until you die
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Post by jubjub on Sept 29, 2019 17:40:51 GMT
We humans are grossly arrogant if we believe we are special Humans are special simply because they can have the thought that they are special! Do other animals (or plants? can plants think?) think they are special? My dogs definitely think they are special!!!
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Post by metanoia on Sept 29, 2019 18:15:26 GMT
A genuine enquiry ... do you believe all living beings enjoy life after death or just humans ? Rog If my two schnauzers are anything to go by then yes they qualify!!! I THOUGHT I'd met you when you posted a couple of days ago...…… THIS life is truly strange enough ….. never mind the next one!! Hope you got a decent mooring and thanks for the tip x met x
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Post by bodger on Sept 29, 2019 19:01:06 GMT
At some point in human evolution there has been a switching, either suddenly or gradual, and 'thinking' came into being. Either the basic designs that evolved into 'thinking' existed in all more primitive life forms or they didn't. If they didn't then the biochemical algorithm concept is a better way to understand what we wrongly describe as 'thinking'. Nothing in evolution is sudden, unless you consider a gross mutation (like a random deformity) to be part of evolution, but such a mutation would not suddenly materialise as 'thinking'. Gradual development of an existing trait, that was useful in some way, into what we now experience as 'thinking' is possible, but it is only a development, it is not new. Anyone who has closely observed mammals can confirm that many species appear to have more than a basic hand-to-mouth awareness of themselves and their environment. For example a dog who loses his housemate and is shown the dead body will accept what has happened, whilst one that has not will pine for the missing friend for months or years. The same applies to wild elephants. It would seem they understand the concept of death, at least within their own species. And of course dogs, rats, chimpanzees and others can learn to analyse situations and find solutions to multiple choice problems. You may call that 'thinking', I prefer to label is biochemical algorithms at work. I guess that two of the reasons why we consider ourselves special, with the ability to 'think', is that our opposable thumbs and our ability to speak (both the result of evolution - i.e. nothing special) has given us more advanced (evolved) powers to create things and verbalise things that other mammals can't match.
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Post by bodger on Sept 29, 2019 19:05:12 GMT
If my two schnauzers are anything to go by then yes they qualify!!! mine are miniatures - Murphy 9 years and Flynn (avatar dog) 8 years. what about yours?
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