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Post by JohnV on Oct 21, 2016 9:56:13 GMT
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 21, 2016 10:30:35 GMT
Well I sent Dan a PM first thing this morning, he's read it but no reply, so I've posted it on the "yesterday's forum announcement - an update" thread. I also included RLWP and Treemonkey in the conversation since they were mentioned in banninlistgate but they were both offended as they both insist they are no part of some Dan advisory council. I believe them, although it is a shame if Dan's only circle of advisors is his mod team, who will of course have a somewhat one-sided view. I might as well put it on here too:
Dan I'm adding Richard and TM since it seems they are part of your inner sanctum and presumably giving you advice to do what you are doing. For their benefit you and I had a long dialogue about the problems with the forum where I've tried to explain what is wrong with the current strategy and you have taken an opposite, and to me a very strange, view. I feel that your latest "announcement" and strategy is almost exactly the opposite of what is required, very unhelpful and damaging and consequently there has been a mass defection to Thunderboat by the ordinary rank and file CWDF members. I've tried to be nice about it but you are not listening.
So how have we got here?
You have allowed a mod culture of arrogance, confrontation, rudeness, bad temperedness, unaccountability, inconsistency and "making up the rules" to develop that has caused an "us and them" feeling with the mods being resented even by quite mild mannered folk. Posts deleted, threads locked with no explanation and no breach of the rules causes resentment, as do angry rants from mods.
You allowed a list of people who the mods felt were generally a pain in the arse, to be drawn up and permanently banned from the forum not for any specific breach of the rules. They were given no explanation since, as we now know, the "link" to the explanation is optional and wasn't sent to quite a few people, and when it was sent, it didn't work as they got a "no permission to view" type of message. This created a massive sense of unfairness and alienation in the people banned.
It is your forum and hence your fault that the banning system doesn't work properly.
Of course a sense of unfairness and alienation should not be an excuse for the personal attacks and harassment / stalking etc and I am in no way trying to defend it, but unfortunately when you poke a hornets nest with a big stick, people get stung. Therefore it is ultimately your fault that some mods have been subject to a lot of upset. You have created a warground, the mods are the casualties.
But let's remember that 99% or more of the active membership have not been abusive to the mods any more than the mods have, in many cases, been abusive to them. 99.9% of members have no made threatening phone calls etc, and are entirely innocent of wrongdoing.
You rule and allow the mods to rule by secrecy and opqueness so even if the the reasons for seemingly odd decisions are valid, no-one knows and again, resentment is the result.
So your strategy to deal with all this is to go on the attack, blame the membership for what has gone wrong even though it is just a tiny minority who have contributed to the problems. No hint of an apology for your mistakes and failings (presumably as you don't see the need to give one). In response to complaints about an excessively authoritarian forum you have responded by making it more authoritarian. The rules and guidelines now read something like a licence agreement with Apple or Microsoft. Whereas Thunderboat has none. You want to silence any dissent like some banana republic dictator.
As a result there has been a massive influx of well known, mild mannered posters into Thunderboat, and that place has now become a very nice place to be with a good sense of camaraderie, whilst CWDF has become a barren warground. So far you have offered nothing that might tempt the defectors back, quite the opposite. By blaming them for the problems you alienate them further.
Well perhaps your strategy will work but if it does, it will only be due to a fresh set of recruits because I very much doubt many of the long established contributors to your forum will want to go back to a forum seemingly led with very poor judgment. I suspect that many of those who do stay will continue to hold underlying resentment and not respect your strategy for running the forum.
I do find it hard to stay off CWDF but I'm going to make a big effort since I don't want to support a monster (the forum I mean, not you personally).
Dan I'm sure you are a nice chap with good intentions, but your current strategy is very wrong.
I do hope your "advisors" can talk you round.
Nick
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 10:37:44 GMT
Lol. Good luck with that Nick. Whist true, something tells me it will fall on deaf ears.
I'm wondering when this site will get targeted next...damn...must remember to keep taking those tablets.
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Post by sandk on Oct 21, 2016 10:43:14 GMT
You are on a hiding to nothing Nick. Dan as shown himself to be a complete moron that won't listen to reason.
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Post by junior on Oct 21, 2016 21:11:04 GMT
I don't go on CWDF anymore so can you explain what you mean about RWLP and Tree Monkey being on some sort of advice panel?
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 21, 2016 21:25:11 GMT
I don't go on CWDF anymore so can you explain what you mean about RWLP and Tree Monkey being on some sort of advice panel? I think it may be a bit of a storm in a teacup. Apparently there were some discussions involving RLWP and TM and a mod or two, on a closed Facebook group. According to TM it was all about supporting a new mod in their position, general chit chat. But at some point "hate lists" (my term!) were discussed. What seems unclear is who was actually still in the conversation at the time, but TM and RLWP are adamant they weren't, and I see no reason to disbelieve them. What I think ultimately happened is that a rogue mod developed their own hate list and then actioned it. I posted the summarised timeline (as far as I could determine it, any corrections welcomed) of the mass cull on CWDF. Its caused a bit of a stir because it seems to show that it was all planned. 9/7/16 JohnV 14/7/16 Loafer 14/7/16 Delta9 (last post 3/6/16) 14/7/16 Jenlyn (last post 21/4/16) 15/7/16 PaulG2 (hadn't posted for 3 weeks) 18/7/16 graham.m (had been on modqueue for ages, never had a post declined) 18/7/16 emerald fox (last post 26/5/16) 18/7/16 bassplayer 18/7/16 tadworth (or whatever name he was using at the time) As I've said, not one of these people had an explanation for their banning because the system didn't work. Many of these people had been slagging off CWDF from Thunderboat and yet Dan denies that was a factor.
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Post by nipper on Oct 21, 2016 21:45:27 GMT
Dan has just thrown a rattle out his cage! Still no answers just threats again!
DHutch, on 21 Oct 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:
Right.
I am not having a select number of members argue in public over moderator actions taken months ago.
This stops now or action will be taken.
Myself and the staff has said we will work to improve, and talked with memeber about this will happen, but this has to stop now.
Daniel
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 21, 2016 21:50:11 GMT
Yup looks like I'm heading for a ban for revealing a nasty truth. It will be worth it though, I will never feel comfortable belonging to a corruptly run forum.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 21:51:56 GMT
Dan has just thrown a rattle out his cage! Still no answers just threats again! DHutch, on 21 Oct 2016 - 10:42 PM, said: Right. I am not having a select number of members argue in public over moderator actions taken months ago. This stops now or action will be taken. Myself and the staff has said we will work to improve, and talked with memeber about this will happen, but this has to stop now. Daniel He's making a complete idiot of himself every time he posts something, what a plank.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 21:57:21 GMT
I don't go on CWDF anymore so can you explain what you mean about RWLP and Tree Monkey being on some sort of advice panel? I think it may be a bit of a storm in a teacup. Apparently there were some discussions involving RLWP and TM and a mod or two, on a closed Facebook group. According to TM it was all about supporting a new mod in their position, general chit chat. But at some point "hate lists" (my term!) were discussed. What seems unclear is who was actually still in the conversation at the time, but TM and RLWP are adamant they weren't, and I see no reason to disbelieve them. What I think ultimately happened is that a rogue mod developed their own hate list and then actioned it. I posted the summarised timeline (as far as I could determine it, any corrections welcomed) of the mass cull on CWDF. Its caused a bit of a stir because it seems to show that it was all planned. 9/7/16 JohnV 14/7/16 Loafer 14/7/16 Delta9 (last post 3/6/16) 14/7/16 Jenlyn (last post 21/4/16) 15/7/16 PaulG2 (hadn't posted for 3 weeks) 18/7/16 graham.m (had been on modqueue for ages, never had a post declined) 18/7/16 emerald fox (last post 26/5/16) 18/7/16 bassplayer 18/7/16 tadworth (or whatever name he was using at the time) As I've said, not one of these people had an explanation for their banning because the system didn't work. Many of these people had been slagging off CWDF from Thunderboat and yet Dan denies that was a factor. What are you hoping to achieve though Nick? Many of us have moved on now, or at least trying to. The success of this forum is something good which has come out of it all. I think it's time to let it go and move on. Any serious issues regarding CWF mod harassment is best left to the police. Also implying publicly that one or two people on your list are possibly 'giving a mod a very unpleasant time' is out of order. Particularly as I am on that list! If you want to change things for the better over there then good luck, but maybe time to stop fighting that battle here.
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Post by marni on Oct 21, 2016 21:58:22 GMT
I did like Martins reply though.MTb asking to be banned so funny
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 21, 2016 22:07:24 GMT
I think it may be a bit of a storm in a teacup. Apparently there were some discussions involving RLWP and TM and a mod or two, on a closed Facebook group. According to TM it was all about supporting a new mod in their position, general chit chat. But at some point "hate lists" (my term!) were discussed. What seems unclear is who was actually still in the conversation at the time, but TM and RLWP are adamant they weren't, and I see no reason to disbelieve them. What I think ultimately happened is that a rogue mod developed their own hate list and then actioned it. I posted the summarised timeline (as far as I could determine it, any corrections welcomed) of the mass cull on CWDF. Its caused a bit of a stir because it seems to show that it was all planned. 9/7/16 JohnV 14/7/16 Loafer 14/7/16 Delta9 (last post 3/6/16) 14/7/16 Jenlyn (last post 21/4/16) 15/7/16 PaulG2 (hadn't posted for 3 weeks) 18/7/16 graham.m (had been on modqueue for ages, never had a post declined) 18/7/16 emerald fox (last post 26/5/16) 18/7/16 bassplayer 18/7/16 tadworth (or whatever name he was using at the time) As I've said, not one of these people had an explanation for their banning because the system didn't work. Many of these people had been slagging off CWDF from Thunderboat and yet Dan denies that was a factor. What are you hoping to achieve though Nick? Many of us have moved on now, or at least trying to. The success of this forum is something good which has come out of it all. I think it's time to let it go and move on. Any serious issues regarding CWF mod harassment is best left to the police. Also implying publicly that one or two people on your list are possibly 'giving a mod a very unpleasant time' is out of order. Particularly as I am on that list! If you want to change things for the better over there then good luck, but maybe time to stop fighting that battle here. I had it in mind that those who had been hard done by / mistreated by that forum would be interested in seeing it being revealed as a "miscarriage of justice" but if I'm wrong then I apologise. Anyway, I'll probably be banned soon so it will stop!
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Post by Delta9 on Oct 21, 2016 22:13:02 GMT
I appreciate your posts, Nick.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 22:15:46 GMT
I appreciate your posts, Nick. Me too. Being called a liar by a liar is not pleasant.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 22:19:22 GMT
What are you hoping to achieve though Nick? Many of us have moved on now, or at least trying to. The success of this forum is something good which has come out of it all. I think it's time to let it go and move on. Any serious issues regarding CWF mod harassment is best left to the police. Also implying publicly that one or two people on your list are possibly 'giving a mod a very unpleasant time' is out of order. Particularly as I am on that list! If you want to change things for the better over there then good luck, but maybe time to stop fighting that battle here. I had it in mind that those who had been hard done by / mistreated by that forum would be interested in seeing it being revealed as a "miscarriage of justice" but if I'm wrong then I apologise. Anyway, I'll probably be banned soon so it will stop! I doubt anyone on your list gives a shit anymore really. That's why we have this new forum so we can try and make it a bit like CWF was in the good old days. I do understand why many CWF members want to persuade Dan to U turn, but it's clear he is not for turning. So lets move on eh. They are big enough to fight their own battles.
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