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Post by tonyqj on Nov 9, 2016 19:07:07 GMT
One reason I think it quite possible that the tram derailed in the tunnel is that if it had come off of the tracks because it entered the bend at excessive speed, I would have expected it to end up much further away from the point where it left the tracks, as you can see the tram almost certainly must have already been on its side as it entered the bend. Not what the passenger said: "it felt like we hit the bend at 50 to 70 mph and it just sling-shotted everyone to the offside of the tram; people on top of people..."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 19:08:12 GMT
It wouldn't have taken them long to check the tram's speed by downloading the journey recorder, although of course there were at least fifty other people aboard the tram and presumably many of them use it frequently enough to know whether it was travelling at a higher than normal speed. There is some speculation that it derailed while still in the tunnel, which would explain why it was unable to brake, and would point to mechanical failure. 'It wouldn't have taken them long to check the tram's speed by downloading the journey recorder,' depending on the circumstances this can take far longer than you might expect. I've only ever been a 'bit part expert' in these sort of instances though. The rest of your post is normal speculation that is to be expected - I maintain my position that the number of fatalities should not be reported until officially announced.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 9, 2016 19:09:30 GMT
It wouldn't have taken them long to check the tram's speed by downloading the journey recorder, although of course there were at least fifty other people aboard the tram and presumably many of them use it frequently enough to know whether it was travelling at a higher than normal speed. There is some speculation that it derailed while still in the tunnel, which would explain why it was unable to brake, and would point to mechanical failure. A passenger just said on the news that it "felt like about 70mph" as it approached the bend. This is what I can't understand. Had it hit that bend at 70mph and derailed, it would have ploughed through those trees and ended up God knows where, hundreds of feet away, smashed to smithereens. If it came off of the track, at that bend, doing 70mph, then why does it look as if it has just fallen over?
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 9, 2016 19:12:54 GMT
It wouldn't have taken them long to check the tram's speed by downloading the journey recorder, although of course there were at least fifty other people aboard the tram and presumably many of them use it frequently enough to know whether it was travelling at a higher than normal speed. There is some speculation that it derailed while still in the tunnel, which would explain why it was unable to brake, and would point to mechanical failure. 'It wouldn't have taken them long to check the tram's speed by downloading the journey recorder,' depending on the circumstances this can take far longer than you might expect. An in-depth analysis of the journey recorder may take longer, but I don't imagine it would take very long for the tram's speed to be checked. They must need to do this for more everyday infractions or incidents. I'd also be very surprised if the trams weren't fitted with forward-facing cameras, which can be viewed instantly, and which record speed using GPS.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 19:25:54 GMT
'It wouldn't have taken them long to check the tram's speed by downloading the journey recorder,' depending on the circumstances this can take far longer than you might expect. An in-depth analysis of the journey recorder may take longer, but I don't imagine it would take very long for the tram's speed to be checked. They must need to do this for more everyday infractions or incidents. I'd also be very surprised if the trams weren't fitted with forward-facing cameras, which can be viewed instantly, and which record speed using GPS. There is some way to go before a train/tram speed is checked and the RAIB making a statement. This isn't an everyday infraction/incident.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 9, 2016 19:31:44 GMT
An in-depth analysis of the journey recorder may take longer, but I don't imagine it would take very long for the tram's speed to be checked. They must need to do this for more everyday infractions or incidents. I'd also be very surprised if the trams weren't fitted with forward-facing cameras, which can be viewed instantly, and which record speed using GPS. There is some way to go before a train/tram speed is checked and the RAIB making a statement. The RAIB already have made that statement. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37919658
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 19:37:21 GMT
The RAIB already have made that statement. My comment was about the length of time it takes for the RAIB to make a statement, nothing else.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Nov 13, 2016 14:38:05 GMT
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 13, 2016 19:47:00 GMT
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 13, 2016 19:57:07 GMT
Just a thought - yesterday we watched the movie 'Flight' where Denzel Washington nearly everyone during a plane crash and is declared a national hero - which is true, he made a good job of it - but later is revealed that he was, however, over the alcohol limit. I wonder if the tram driver was tested for alcohol and other drugs?
" And Cliff Gadd, 56, said he and his nine-year-old grand-daughter had endured a terrifying journey on the line just days before the accident. Mr Gadd said it felt as if a “racing driver” was at the controls as the tram made a “screaming noise” while barrelling through a tunnel. He added: “I used to work on the railways and I know what too fast is and this was much too fast.” Mr Gadd shouted at the driver but claims he just laughed. "
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 20:04:29 GMT
...Snip... I wonder if the tram driver was tested for alcohol and other drugs? This would be completely routine and the result would be public now if Drink/Drugs were a direct cause.
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Post by JohnV on Nov 13, 2016 20:14:42 GMT
One thing I noticed is how wonky the tracks are in the tunnel - have a look. Ross, I think that is mostly an optical effect from the focal length of the lens
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 13, 2016 20:33:10 GMT
I've seen two pictures of the tunnel, and although they are zoomed-in, the tracks still look all wibbly-wobbly to me. From what I've now read, it seems this section of track was used for speeding - for fun or just to catch up on the tight timetable? I would be interested to see the driver's half-finished text message and times of his last texts/calls (during driving?). I see this every day, bus and train timetables are fantasies made by planners who sit in offices, and the drivers are left there to sweat it out. And the passengers just moan that the vehicle is late, and your work mates grumble that you are late when you turn up and hand the vehicle over to them. Psychologically forced to drive fast, and be the scapegoat when something goes wrong (the timetable planner and bosses always get away with it). And again, road vehicles driving up each other's arses all the time (tailgating as the Americans call it). Every second vehicle I pass the driver is doing a text or on the phone - the Police certainly are aware but do nothing. I wonder if official complaints about that section of tram track and speeding were made - and who exactly ignored them?
ps - now that it has snowed here, my bus certainly runs 'late'. The kids are really in no hurry to get to school or back home, and my job is to get that metal box on wheels from A to B and back safely and without incident. All of the vehicles I drive have Alko-locks fitted so you can't start the engine if over the limit (which is set very very low). Yes, can be by-passed, but not practically.
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Post by Saltysplash on Nov 14, 2016 15:49:16 GMT
. All of the vehicles I drive have Alko-locks fitted so you can't start the engine if over the limit (which is set very very low). Yes, can be by-passed, but not practically. You could get one of the Kids to start it
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Post by naughtyfox on Nov 14, 2016 21:08:08 GMT
You could get one of the Kids to start it Yeah, when they're not pissed
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