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Post by kris on Nov 13, 2016 8:44:50 GMT
If direct democracy and referendums always lead to disaster as some say why is Switzerland so successful? Top Cat because before the rise of London they where the worlds prmiere money laundering destination and are still sat on a lot of stolen gold.
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Post by Gone on Nov 13, 2016 8:52:19 GMT
My emotional side wants more democracy and sees having a constitutional monarchy as fundamentally wrong, BUT when asked would I get rid of the monarchy and have a president in the past I always said 'No'. The current system used to give us a leader that was elected by the parliamentary party in power by people that know well the candidates and hopefully vote on what is best for the country.
The US president system tends to favour those who either have lots of money (eg Bush family) or famous (eg Reagan). With the ever rising power of the celebrity, I could see us ending up with whoever just won 'strictly' or 'bake off' or even President Beckham.
But the UK is now moving towards the US system where the labour leader is now selected by popular vote of labour members, most of whom do not really know the candidates and their true personal values. So labour now has a leader that his own parliamentary party feel is unfit for the job.
I can see the Tory party drifting that way as well, as one way of getting voters to vote is to give then someone they think is good to vote for. But I am not capable of judging either May or Corbin as my views are mainly based upon what the media choose to tell me. Though in the case of one of them, I think I know enough to know I don't want them.
So I hope we return to selecting the leader of the country by the vote of the parliamentary party in power as it will tend to keep the worst people for the job out, but I don't see it happening.
As to referendums, people tend to vote based upon their emotional views as like most I/we don't have enough facts to make a logical judgement, and possibly facts are not even available, just forecasts squeezed and distorted to support the emotional views of the author.
So on the whole referendums are emotional - not the way to run a country.
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Post by smileypete on Nov 13, 2016 9:01:17 GMT
There has never been a successful direct democracy. Now, thanks to the Brexit referendum, we have a bunch of fuckwits who don't understand what democracy is trying to tell everyone what democracy is. Nah, it's just the metropolitan/euro fuckwits not getting their way for once and being in denial about it. Big problem is career politicians who don't live in the real world the rest of us inhabit.
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Post by bodger on Nov 13, 2016 9:13:27 GMT
democracy is a Greek concept that puts power in the hands of those qualified to vote.
those not qualified to vote were known as idiots.
FACT.
so populism is not in the spirit of democracy (which being a Greek derived word should be understood in its proper context).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 9:20:18 GMT
democracy is a Greek concept that puts power in the hands of those qualified to vote. those not qualified to vote were known as idiots. It's quite worrying that it was only a few generations ago that non-whites and women were regarded as idiots then... Good to see we have moved on a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 9:48:18 GMT
Interesting.....Jonathon Pie thinks he knows who is responsible for the success of Trump.....
(Warning lots of F words!)
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Post by smileypete on Nov 13, 2016 9:51:35 GMT
It's said that Bernie would have won against Trump, and basically Hillary lost the election.
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Post by lollygagger on Nov 13, 2016 14:52:36 GMT
The main problem is the floating voter, who by definition doesn't understand politics, probably more disinterested than dim, but they are the ones who decide and also the easiest to influence simply because they CBA to waste much time on it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2016 15:06:55 GMT
The main problem is the floating voter, ...Snip... Are you suggesting that Boaters are the main problem?
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Post by Saltysplash on Nov 13, 2016 15:17:16 GMT
Direct democracy and referendums has never been a successful way of doing things. It isn't true democracy, it is tyrany of morons Isn't this forum run on a form of Direct Democracy? We're an anarchosyndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting. By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,-- but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more-- ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
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Post by JohnV on Nov 13, 2016 16:38:16 GMT
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