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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 14:49:41 GMT
Figure released today show that Manufacturing in Britain has contracted for the first time in three years. With the slump in oil and gas prices the strength of sterling and shrinking Global Demand,Domestic Consumption was I suppose the one bright spot. Once again this slump is being pinned on the uncertainties regarding the Brexit Referendum with people holding of spending any money.Average salaries are also down 3.4% on last month. I wonder when you strip all the Government created stimulus out of the Economy what is the real position? Not very good I would say,its just not in anyones interest to talk the Economy down though the fact remains that a large swathe of the Population are on their Arse and will be for the foreseeable. You look to your Government for some radical policy to take us somewhere better but it never comes and then you realise what an absolute dearth of talent there is in Politics today.
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 15:42:03 GMT
This is why neo-liberal free market economics cannot ever work.
The governments who have spent the most public money have always been the so-called "free marketeers" and this government is no exception.
It always amuses me when the Tories (and Tory Blair) point at that dark day in 1976 when Denis Healey borrowed £2 billion as economic shame and incompetence even though Healey didn't use all of the loan and paid it all back.
Contrast this with today when the national debt is increasing by £1.6 billion a week making Healey's loan look like pocket money.
In 1979 the national debt was £98 billion...quite a lot of money until you compare it to today's national debt of £1.6 Trilllion!
That's what 37 years of "cuts", efficiency, and neo-liberalism does for an economy.
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Post by PaulG2 on May 3, 2016 16:12:28 GMT
Hello CarlT - Since this is the first post of yours that I've seen, I'll say welcome to the forum!
Strange, in a way, that what you have described is labeled as neo-liberalism. Here, it is neo-conservatism that has brought us the same results.
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 16:35:46 GMT
Hello CarlT - Since this is the first post of yours that I've seen, I'll say welcome to the forum! Strange, in a way, that what you have described is labeled as neo-liberalism. Here, it is neo-conservatism that has brought us the same results. Neo-liberalism is a phrase used over here to describe the free-marketeers who follow the ideology of Hayek as opposed to Keynes. The liberalism moniker is confusing as, over here, it tends to get mixed up with the political party The Liberal-Democrats and over your way with the Republican insult aimed at those not as right wing as them. I prefer the terms "Thatcherite gits" and "Bliarite scum" as they are more self explanatory.
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Post by kris on May 3, 2016 16:43:07 GMT
I prefer the terms "Thatcherite gits" and "Bliarite scum" as they are more self explanatory. Yes they definately hit the nail on the head. I might be wrong but I thought it came from the Chicago school, the first place to implement it being chile under pinnocet. Regards kris
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 16:50:12 GMT
I prefer the terms "Thatcherite gits" and "Bliarite scum" as they are more self explanatory. Yes they definately hit the nail on the head. I might be wrong but I thought it came from the Chicago school, the first place to implement it being chile under pinnocet. Regards kris Thatcher definitely admired Pinochet and his economic ideology and yes Hayek was a professor at the Chicago School of Economics after leaving the LSE.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 16:57:36 GMT
Its interesting that when Thatcher adopted his theory after coming to power,that the Conservative Research Unit were already advocating a " Third Way Policy " the much fabled middle road that was so beloved of Blair and New Labour. Great to see you aboard Carlit another Sabcat is always welcome.
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Post by kris on May 3, 2016 16:58:05 GMT
Blair admired thatcher, scum and parasites is the best description I can find. Good to see you on thunderboat by the way Carlt.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 17:18:22 GMT
Can I ask again what do people think the true position is when this artificial stimulus is stripped from the economy. Is it simply unsecured Personal Debt that is keeping the working class afloat in Britain today? I wonder also how this raising of the taxable allowance sits with the Austerity Policy ? is it so insignificant as not to matter?
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 17:20:20 GMT
Great to see you aboard Carlt another Sabcat is always welcome. Please No! Sabcat is an Anarchist whereas I am a Socialist.
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Post by carlt on May 3, 2016 17:27:06 GMT
Can I ask again what do people think the true position is when this artificial stimulus is stripped from the economy. Is it simply unsecured Personal Debt that is keeping the working class afloat in Britain today? I wonder also how this raising of the taxable allowance sits with the Austerity Policy ? is it so insignificant as not to matter? The British workforce is effectively a Nationalised workforce, despite what the Tories would have us believe. This is because, with the poor wages and working conditions the working classes would not survive without Tax Credits and other benefits. The big corporations, on top of not paying their share in taxes, are further subsidised by the government through the Welfare system. This is why it has been impossible to reduce the deficit despite claims of "austerity". Britain has become totally welfare dependant over the last 37 years.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 17:40:16 GMT
Can I ask again what do people think the true position is when this artificial stimulus is stripped from the economy. Is it simply unsecured Personal Debt that is keeping the working class afloat in Britain today? I wonder also how this raising of the taxable allowance sits with the Austerity Policy ? is it so insignificant as not to matter? The British workforce is effectively a Nationalised workforce, despite what the Tories would have us believe. This is because, with the poor wages and working conditions the working classes would not survive without Tax Credits and other benefits. The big corporations, on top of not paying their share in taxes, are further subsidised by the government through the Welfare system. This is why it has been impossible to reduce the deficit despite claims of "austerity". Britain has become totally welfare dependant over the last 37 years. We are therefore effectively trapped in a whirlpool with any hope of social mobility lost forever.In fact it could be argued that the last instance of social mobility dates back to Thatcher and "The right to buy" which in turn could be argued where the enslavement to debt and the shacklement of activism in the workplace began also. An ill wind indeed.
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Post by loafer on May 3, 2016 18:11:04 GMT
I never know what to post in these sort of threads. I know bugger all about it, except that my Dad said that no matter who you vote for, the Govt always gets in anyway. So I have NEVER voted, which I think you'll find surprising in a university-educated man of 60 having spent most of his working life working for Aunt Betty.
I'm STILL enjoying life though, which isn't a result of who's in power (except for Maggie's 35% pay rise in 1979!
Does this make me a bad person? I know I'm fairly ignorant, but harmless. Unless you're in an aircraft which my boss has told me to shoot down!
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Post by Clinton Cool on May 3, 2016 18:47:23 GMT
Perpetual growth is not possible. The world only has so much space, and so many resources.
I welcome these figures but would prefer to see a steady decline, worldwide, in economic activity. Team this with the following:
1/ The ending of all child related benefits in the developed world.
2/ End all foreign aid.
3/ End development of new medicines.
At the end of the day the growth we've had over the past few decades has benefitted few. Others have many more things than they used to have too, but they are massively in debt.
Happiness can come in many ways, it's not essential to have 'things'.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 3, 2016 19:37:16 GMT
Once again this slump is being pinned on the uncertainties regarding the Brexit Referendum with people holding of spending any money. It's not that people are holding off on spending money, it's more that nobody has any to spend. I earn less than I did 20 years ago, my girlfriend who is an HCA has had her pay rises capped at 1% for years, I don't know anybody who has a fraction of the disposable income that they did 10 or 20 years ago.
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