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Post by peterboat on May 8, 2016 11:03:08 GMT
Well the dust has settled and its now obvious that Labour did crap! After all the political stuff that the Tories have had thrown at them it should have been a whitewash! but no Labour lost councilors and Scotland, they are really in the do dah to say the least. My daughter won her seat, but UKIP still gained an extra 2 seats, and at least six of the labour councilors are involved in the child sex scandal. But as someone said stick a red rose on a donkey in Rotherham and they will vote for it!! Whats your views guys
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Post by loafer on May 8, 2016 11:08:33 GMT
I don't have any, Pete, I'm afraid! Appalling for an educated bloke, I know, but I really don't care. I'll bet the Government gets in, whatever happens, so it's bound to be shit in the eyes of 50% of the population!
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 11:44:30 GMT
Well the dust has settled and its now obvious that Labour did crap! After all the political stuff that the Tories have had thrown at them it should have been a whitewash! but no Labour lost councilors and Scotland, they are really in the do dah to say the least. My daughter won her seat, but UKIP still gained an extra 2 seats, and at least six of the labour councilors are involved in the child sex scandal. But as someone said stick a red rose on a donkey in Rotherham and they will vote for it!! Whats your views guys Think you have it right Peter regarding no opposition to the Tories.Scotland and Labour I think is a separate issue. This child sex stuff,good on these judges handing out stiff sentences to this trash,I would have thirty year mandatory sentences for these people.
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Post by JohnV on May 8, 2016 12:03:04 GMT
Well the dust has settled and its now obvious that Labour did crap! After all the political stuff that the Tories have had thrown at them it should have been a whitewash! but no Labour lost councilors and Scotland, they are really in the do dah to say the least. My daughter won her seat, but UKIP still gained an extra 2 seats, and at least six of the labour councilors are involved in the child sex scandal. But as someone said stick a red rose on a donkey in Rotherham and they will vote for it!! Whats your views guys Think you have it right Peter,there is no opposition to the Tories.Scotland and Labour I think is a separate issue. This child sex stuff,good on these judges handing out stiff sentences to this trash,I would have thirty year mandatory sentences for these people. I am usually (but not always) a Tory supporter but I am also a firm believer in an effective opposition to keep the radicals under control. Labour losing it's way is not good for the Tory party either, as it lets it wander too far from the grass roots.
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Post by sabcat on May 8, 2016 14:17:41 GMT
Weird, I must have seen a different set of results to everyone else. Labour the largest share of the vote in England and Wales, took the London Mayor election and the largest party in the assembly. Scotland's narrative was written 2 years ago, it polarised between radical independence and conservative unionism and Labour are, for now at least, nowhere on that. You vote SNP/Green for one and Tory for the other, the rest is just fluff and the results reflect that. What Labour should do is split the party and let the Scottish LP federate. That would at least reflect the situation that exists.
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Post by peterboat on May 8, 2016 14:32:20 GMT
Weird, I must have seen a different set of results to everyone else. Labour the largest share of the vote in England and Wales, took the London Mayor election and the largest party in the assembly. Scotland's narrative was written 2 years ago, it polarised between radical independence and conservative unionism and Labour are, for now at least, nowhere on that. You vote SNP/Green for one and Tory for the other, the rest is just fluff and the results reflect that. What Labour should do is split the party and let the Scottish LP federate. That would at least reflect the situation that exists. Not exactly right both labour and tories lost seats, both lost a council, ukip and libs gained and given the rubbish that is going on with the tories, they should have been trounced and wernt! So as I said Sab Labour are doing crap according to labour the worst results in 30 years bye bye Corbyn time nearly crap Ps welcome Sab long time no discuss
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Post by sabcat on May 8, 2016 14:42:23 GMT
Weird, I must have seen a different set of results to everyone else. Labour the largest share of the vote in England and Wales, took the London Mayor election and the largest party in the assembly. Scotland's narrative was written 2 years ago, it polarised between radical independence and conservative unionism and Labour are, for now at least, nowhere on that. You vote SNP/Green for one and Tory for the other, the rest is just fluff and the results reflect that. What Labour should do is split the party and let the Scottish LP federate. That would at least reflect the situation that exists. Not exactly right both labour and tories lost seats, both lost a council, ukip and libs gained and given the rubbish that is going on with the tories, they should have been trounced and wernt! So as I said Sab Labour are doing crap according to labour the worst results in 30 years bye bye Corbyn time nearly crap Ps welcome Sab long time no discuss I'm not sure which part isn't true, Labour got the largest share of the vote, Labour did indeed lose seats but based on them defending net gains of 800 in 2012 (the last time these seats were fought) it's hardly a surprise and falls short of the 1- 300 losses that were predicted before the vote. Sadly for his opponents there's no chance of Corbyn being ousted now, he has the membership with him and between now and conference in September is in a position to consolidate his power in the party. HQ/NEC control is going to be top of his list. Also, despite the BBC apparently being blind to it, at least in the run up to the latest elections the Tories have some massive problems, electoral fraud, splits of Europe, a leadership contest of their own possibly if remain win, definitely if brexit wins and the economy is set to crash harder than 2008 before July. Interesting times.
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Post by peterboat on May 8, 2016 15:24:18 GMT
Not exactly right both labour and tories lost seats, both lost a council, ukip and libs gained and given the rubbish that is going on with the tories, they should have been trounced and wernt! So as I said Sab Labour are doing crap according to labour the worst results in 30 years bye bye Corbyn time nearly crap Ps welcome Sab long time no discuss I'm not sure which part isn't true, Labour got the largest share of the vote, Labour did indeed lose seats but based on them defending net gains of 800 in 2012 (the last time these seats were fought) it's hardly a surprise and falls short of the 1- 300 losses that were predicted before the vote. Sadly for his opponents there's no chance of Corbyn being ousted now, he has the membership with him and between now and conference in September is in a position to consolidate his power in the party. HQ/NEC control is going to be top of his list. Also, despite the BBC apparently being blind to it, at least in the run up to the latest elections the Tories have some massive problems, electoral fraud, splits of Europe, a leadership contest of their own possibly if remain win, definitely if brexit wins and the economy is set to crash harder than 2008 before July. Interesting times. Very interesting times I think. I dont think the Tories want Corbyn gone he is what has saved them from a trouncing this time he is splitting the party in two but lets see what the vote in June does and how much the media whip up the brexit it the last week before it?
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Post by sabcat on May 8, 2016 15:40:24 GMT
I'm not sure which part isn't true, Labour got the largest share of the vote, Labour did indeed lose seats but based on them defending net gains of 800 in 2012 (the last time these seats were fought) it's hardly a surprise and falls short of the 1- 300 losses that were predicted before the vote. Sadly for his opponents there's no chance of Corbyn being ousted now, he has the membership with him and between now and conference in September is in a position to consolidate his power in the party. HQ/NEC control is going to be top of his list. Also, despite the BBC apparently being blind to it, at least in the run up to the latest elections the Tories have some massive problems, electoral fraud, splits of Europe, a leadership contest of their own possibly if remain win, definitely if brexit wins and the economy is set to crash harder than 2008 before July. Interesting times. Very interesting times I think. I dont think the Tories want Corbyn gone he is what has saved them from a trouncing this time he is splitting the party in two but lets see what the vote in June does and how much the media whip up the brexit it the last week before it? The Tories weren't saved, they lost hundreds of seats in 2012, Corbyn's Labour part held them. There were no seats for Corbyn to win, only former Tory seats to lose. They weren't, on the whole, lost. This week was a result for Corbyn both in terms of seats and vote share.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 16:46:53 GMT
Very interesting times I think. I dont think the Tories want Corbyn gone he is what has saved them from a trouncing this time he is splitting the party in two but lets see what the vote in June does and how much the media whip up the brexit it the last week before it? The Tories weren't saved, they lost hundreds of seats in 2012, Corbyn's Labour part held them. There were no seats for Corbyn to win, only former Tory seats to lose. They weren't, on the whole, lost. This week was a result for Corbyn both in terms of seats and vote share. The fact remains he is barely landing a punch on a Government that as you say is a total shambles and in a permanent state of disarray, even a budget doesn't last 24 hrs.I believe he is well out of his depth as leader,I think McDonnell comes across far better,can I say that I have allowed for a media that denigrates him at every opportunity when I say this. Why Sabcat has he not moved to deselect these scurrilous bastard MP,s who continually are disloyal,I hate disloyalty especially from these careerist Blairite Scum.This Tom Watson is another one who is worth a watching who seems to me to be continually missing when there is any action.I also think he made a mistake over Europe akin to the Lib Dem tuition fee fiasco.
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Post by sabcat on May 8, 2016 18:19:54 GMT
The Tories weren't saved, they lost hundreds of seats in 2012, Corbyn's Labour part held them. There were no seats for Corbyn to win, only former Tory seats to lose. They weren't, on the whole, lost. This week was a result for Corbyn both in terms of seats and vote share. The fact remains he is barely landing a punch on a Government that as you say is a total shambles and in a permanent state of disarray, even a budget doesn't last 24 hrs.I believe he is well out of his depth as leader,I think McDonnell comes across far better,can I say that I have allowed for a media that denigrates him at every opportunity when I say this. Why Sabcat has he not moved to deselect these scurrilous bastard MP,s who continually are disloyal,I hate disloyalty especially from these careerist Blairite Scum.This Tom Watson is another one who is worth a watching who seems to me to be continually missing when there is any action.I also think he made a mistake over Europe akin to the Lib Dem tuition fee fiasco. It's difficult to see how he could land a punch and what such a punch would look like if he did. As things stand there's no actual Labour policy framework to push, nothing but a set of vague ideas/values to sell to the electorate and despite that Labour took the highest vote share in the elections this week. What is happening is a very interesting discussion within the LP around fiscal/monetary policy that McDonnell is driving and if it does form policy - a big if - it creates a situation where 2020 could be an election with something at stake - 2010, 2015 as 2 examples were not elections with anything at stake, despite the pantomime. The ideas underpinning the policies of all parties were identical, if Labour had won those elections we'd be exactly where we are now, which makes me think hard core Labour supporters who campaigned for Milliband/Brown and now champion Corbyn are basically dick heads who don't have any politics but that's another story. Paul Mason probably describes the potential policy best medium.com/mosquito-ridge/enough-central-bank-jazz-hands-816825d67efe#.t8qghlr97That ongoing discussion makes me pleased that Corbyn's going to remain leader. What comes of it remains to be seen but that post by Paul is worth a read for anyone interested in the future of the UK working class.
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Post by sabcat on May 8, 2016 18:25:27 GMT
What makes me slightly less enthusiastic is Corbyn campaigning for Remain despite being opposed to the EU for 30 years and the EU being a block to many of the policies that would make implementing their plan, such as it currently exists. I think though the EU is basically done anyway, Brexit or not.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 18:31:14 GMT
Jesus sabcat thats the problem with all that stuff it just goes above the head of Joe Public,for me its a problem the left has always had and thats a lack of sex appeal for the man in the street.Even when you are right with a genuine contribution to make,the Left make it hard work.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 18:33:19 GMT
What makes me slightly less enthusiastic is Corbyn campaigning for Remain despite being opposed to the EU for 30 years and the EU being a block to many of the policies that would make implementing their plan, such as it currently exists. I think though the EU is basically done anyway, Brexit or not. Just when I was going to Fuck you off as a lost cause you provide a diamond lol. My thoughts entirely.So post EU where are we?
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Post by sabcat on May 8, 2016 18:48:01 GMT
What makes me slightly less enthusiastic is Corbyn campaigning for Remain despite being opposed to the EU for 30 years and the EU being a block to many of the policies that would make implementing their plan, such as it currently exists. I think though the EU is basically done anyway, Brexit or not. Just when I was going to Fuck you off as a lost cause you provide a diamond lol. My thoughts entirely.So post EU where are we? The discussions are as you rightly say, dry, boring and on the face of it massively complicated. The trick is turning that into a narrative for people to get behind. That's not hard though when the alternative is failing and causing nothing but misery. In 1945 the birth of the welfare state wasn't sold to the people in terms of a shift form laissez-faire economics to Keynesian economics it was sold as a story of employment and justice. When Thatcher came to power in 1979 Thatcherism wasn't sold as a solution to the failure of Keynesian economics it was sold as personal responsibility, of opportunity for all. So it is with this, the policy formation is one thing, selling a future people can believe in is the key. The current system is absolutely screwed, so if nothing else Corbyn and McDonnell have history on their side, their party is a different matter though.
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