Deleted
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Crt
Apr 8, 2016 21:06:54 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 21:06:54 GMT
Having said this, we actually feel quite at home in Sowerby Bridge and we have taken very much to 'Yorkshire folk'. I like Yorkshire, and Yorkshire folk too, I spend a fair bit of time there in the truck. Never been there in the boat yet, but I am sure I will. I think it was Bill Bryson who said about Yorkshiremen "If you ever want to know what your shortcomings are, you won't find more helpful people anywhere". Just don't expect one to buy you a drink.
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 8:51:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by kris on Apr 9, 2016 8:51:04 GMT
In my opinion, anybody who thinks Crt doesn't have an agenda to make the waterways into a linear theme park is delusional. If you can't see the current concerted effort to rid the waterways of a certain kind of boater, remove your head from the sand. The issue of cc'ing is a very convient for Crt, it pits boater against boater. It also enables Crt to remove some of the "undesirables". All the time deflecting attention from the real issues of declining maintenance and selling off more property than ever before . It's time for anyone who is interested in the survival of the waterways as a network fit for navigation to wake up and start becoming active. Before it's too late.
Regards kris
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Deleted
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 9:32:54 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 9:32:54 GMT
In my opinion, anybody who thinks Crt doesn't have an agenda to make the waterways into a linear theme park is delusional. If you can't see the current concerted effort to rid the waterways of a certain kind of boater, remove your head from the sand. The issue of cc'ing is a very convient for Crt, it pits boater against boater. It also enables Crt to remove some of the "undesirables". All the time deflecting attention from the real issues of declining maintenance and selling off more property than ever before . It's time for anyone who is interested in the survival of the waterways as a network fit for navigation to wake up and start becoming active. Before it's too late. Regards kris I believe the battle is going to be fought and possibly won in London because there is a much wider issue here and CRT and the one size fits all licensing policy doesn't cover that issue
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 10:09:02 GMT
Post by Higgs on Apr 9, 2016 10:09:02 GMT
In my opinion, anybody who thinks Crt doesn't have an agenda to make the waterways into a linear theme park is delusional. If you can't see the current concerted effort to rid the waterways of a certain kind of boater, remove your head from the sand. The issue of cc'ing is a very convient for Crt, it pits boater against boater. It also enables Crt to remove some of the "undesirables". All the time deflecting attention from the real issues of declining maintenance and selling off more property than ever before . It's time for anyone who is interested in the survival of the waterways as a network fit for navigation to wake up and start becoming active. Before it's too late. Regards kris
I personally have no problems with the CC'ing community. You cannot fight if you have no leverage and boaters have no leverage. We are in no real position to force CRT to negotiate. This is the second time in this thread that you have asked for people to stir into some kind of activity to demonstrate an acknowledgment of urgency to halt the decline of the waterways. Boaters are not a priority. What could compel CRT to change that. At present, nothing.
If you were running a business and no matter what you did your customers were always going to have to pay you, your predictable little compliant customers will always have to cough up, those ever-loving suckers will deserve all they get, including a wrecked waterway and a hole in their pockets as a prize? What will you as a business feel obliged to maintain? I'd suggest keeping the suckers just where they are would suit your business just fine.
I don't resort to expletives much, but, fuck the company off and close down a source of guaranteed revenue; I don't need to repeat where I think that might be possible. The canal is falling to pieces now, even with all the guaranteed income from the boaters. No other group that finances the canal could be seen as tied into financing the canal, yet boaters are.
What are CRT doing to justify the government grant? Well, they're very much more proactive in their duty to the public. CRT have to work at and trade what they have to make money come in. Not with boaters, we pay, whatever. While that situation exists, forget your action.
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 10:19:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by kris on Apr 9, 2016 10:19:33 GMT
That seems very negative Higgs, if you place yourself in a position of having no power then you have no power. I have personally been involved in numerous campaigns where the people with "no power" have won. The alternative is that we could all take your do nothing approach , then it is a fait au compli.
Regards kris
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 10:25:15 GMT
Post by Higgs on Apr 9, 2016 10:25:15 GMT
That seems very negative Higgs, if you place yourself in a position of having no power then you have no power. I have personally been involved in numerous campaigns where the people with "no power" have won. The alternative is that we could all take your do nothing approach , then it is a fait au compli. Regards kris
I guess that other things I've been putting forward do not strike you as a way of being active. You think all that is about doing nothing?
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 10:33:12 GMT
Post by JohnV on Apr 9, 2016 10:33:12 GMT
That seems very negative Higgs, if you place yourself in a position of having no power then you have no power. I have personally been involved in numerous campaigns where the people with "no power" have won. The alternative is that we could all take your do nothing approach , then it is a fait au compli. Regards kris The best ways to campaign can normally be found by looking at successful campaigns of the past.
By that standard You would probably be best off by starting "Inland Waterways Association Number 2"
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 10:43:20 GMT
Post by Higgs on Apr 9, 2016 10:43:20 GMT
The best ways to campaign can normally be found by looking at successful campaigns of the past.
By that standard You would probably be best off by starting "Inland Waterways Association Number 2"
Thanks, but I've no fondness for IWA 1. I would not have done what they did for the Boaters' council image. Campaigns grow in various ways. If it goes on, it goes on. Like this forum, it may take on a life of its own. I do what I can, with the time I have.
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 11:30:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by kris on Apr 9, 2016 11:30:43 GMT
Sorry Higgs I didnt mean to imply you are doing nothing. It just seems you hold the view boaters are in a weak position of no leverage. I disagree most strongly to this view. Imagine if you will , that the issue of Crt demanding liscence fees from boaters in private marinas. Got a lot more publicity was proven to be illegal. Then say 9% of the boaters directly effected by this, decided to take action. For instance leaving their marinas and mooring on the canal. I'm shure the insuing chaos, combined with negative publicity would make Crt sit up and take notice. Now the above is just a thought experiment, but thinking that you have no power or leverage puts the kybosh on such action from the get go.
Regards kris
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 12:09:13 GMT
Post by Higgs on Apr 9, 2016 12:09:13 GMT
Sorry Higgs I didnt mean to imply you are doing nothing. It just seems you hold the view boaters are in a weak position of no leverage. I disagree most strongly to this view. Imagine if you will , that the issue of Crt demanding liscence fees from boaters in private marinas. Got a lot more publicity was proven to be illegal. Then say 9% of the boaters directly effected by this, decided to take action. For instance leaving their marinas and mooring on the canal. I'm shure the insuing chaos, combined with negative publicity would make Crt sit up and take notice. Now the above is just a thought experiment, but thinking that you have no power or leverage puts the kybosh on such action from the get go. Regards kris
I really hope boaters will find the leverage. On this NAA marina topic, the current situation is a negative for boaters. Any boater that might feel like protesting would risk being evicted by the marina. Self preservation is a strong instinct, even in those who think they are not being treated well. For a long while, boaters have been keeping their' heads down and paying up. Not wishing to rock the boat while the situation is basically to their advantage. Someone turns a blind eye here or there and you're left alone syndrome. That helps the boater and I do not want to effect that.
Having said that, there is no reason to ignore changing a condition that forces boaters to buy something they are not legally obliged to have. Because moorers are being coerced into buying a licence, to avoid being evicted, they are between a rock and a hard place. Marinas must be kept on side, for the service they provide to those that need the moorings. By removing the need to buy a licence, CRT cannot expect subservience and will be placed in a position of having to tempt people onto the canal for the revenue, which at the moment is secure. You cannot tempt people onto the canal if is run down or if the licence fees are increased exorbitantly.
Any change of the conditions requiring boaters to buy a licence will not stop those boaters buying a licence and doing exactly what they do now. The only difference would be, it would be by real choice and not by coercion. Those boaters that already intend to carry on by choice to by a licence will continue to do so, but they can withdraw at any time by choice, if CRT are not living up to their promise of maintenance and peoples' boating experience becomes poor. They will begin to look at the cost of a licence and reflect on the condition of the canal.
CRT will also have to go to the government and get backing for what is becoming a very public orientated focus Trust, for which boaters should not play patsy. CRT have no right to be guaranteed unquestioning support from boaters. Choice has to be an essential part of the relationship. Otherwise, one party is going to take advantage of the other, and they do.
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 12:43:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by kris on Apr 9, 2016 12:43:44 GMT
I don't disagree with anything you say in this post other than "find leverage." In my experience you don't find leverage you make it. Oh and a few too many words for a dyslexic too take in at one go( but that's my problem)
Regards kris
Ps the fact I think it's important to remember in regards too the NAA is that Crt need the boats to stay in the marinas . They just couldn't cope if significant numbers decided not to moor off line.
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Deleted
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 16:51:53 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 16:51:53 GMT
I don't disagree with anything you say in this post other than "find leverage." In my experience you don't find leverage you make it. Oh and a few too many words for a dyslexic too take in at one go( but that's my problem) Regards kris Ps the fact I think it's important to remember in regards too the NAA is that Crt need the boats to stay in the marinas . They just couldn't cope if significant numbers decided not to moor off line. I will tell you where the Leverage is and thats London,CRT know that and thats why they are treading carefully. Consider the Liveaboard continuously cruising down there,these comprise Doctors,Nurses,Designers,Professionals all disenfranchised by the money pouring into Londons booming property market putting housing out of reach. A Government that cannot get to grips with the problem,listen to the Mayoral Debates its a mess,London can't function without these people.How do you think the Government is going to look if CRT start evicting boaters, confiscating homes,throw into that mix the press and a few left wing factions and you have chaos.These boaters are not the illiterate boatman of old,they are educated professionals that have no interest in cruising patterns etc this boat they occupy is a home,nothing else. I believe its a case of WATCH THIS SPACE
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 17:05:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by kris on Apr 9, 2016 17:05:19 GMT
I'd rather be actively involved, than just watching.
Regards kris
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Deleted
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 17:16:06 GMT
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 17:16:06 GMT
I'd rather be actively involved, than just watching. Regards kris Thats why your almost persona non grata on CWDF ha ha You agree with my post Kris about London?
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Crt
Apr 9, 2016 17:58:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by kris on Apr 9, 2016 17:58:10 GMT
I agree that what happens in London is going to be important for the future of the waterways. But the network does go all over the country. It seems every time I post an opinion on cwdf that differs from the group meme on there it gets removed. Its always theo who tells me off for some reason.
Regards kris
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