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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 9:14:20 GMT
The thread about the protest yesterday, is ridiculous. With bass player being the only dissenting voice, do they really think they are having meaningful debate. Arthur marshal is my nomination for idiot of the week. Strangely, I rather like Arthur and gave him one or two greenies. Then I noticed I seemed to have been given unlimited-greenies-power and gave him another 8! Is this because I've been away so long? Is it 2 greenies per day and they get put into a 'savings account'? How's about if I gave 500 to MtB?! I agreed with Arthurs post about the NBTA coming up with some alternatives to the current position, I think that could have some positives
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 9:41:34 GMT
Strangely, I rather like Arthur and gave him one or two greenies. Then I noticed I seemed to have been given unlimited-greenies-power and gave him another 8! Is this because I've been away so long? Is it 2 greenies per day and they get put into a 'savings account'? How's about if I gave 500 to MtB?! I agreed with Arthurs post about the NBTA coming up with some alternatives to the current position, I think that could have some positives I don't know if you read any of my posts there but as I said, they just want to protect thier way of life and be allowed to stay in the same locality so they can access thier workplace and schools. Only CRT are getting in the way of that (and those backing them). If you were one of the rare breed who could live on a boat and you aren't getting in the way of the rest of us, what's the problem? The problem is that some people see them as scum who should be cleansed from the system. Some are jealous of thier lifestyle so whinge and complain despite not having the bottle to try out the lifestyle for themselves. Some just want to go along with the tide of 'normality' and criticise anything which threatens their comfort bubble. Fortunately they are smart enough to realise that internet forums are not the place to deal with serious real life issues. Protests and the media attention they get is far more productive than arguing with a bunch of old tossers like us.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 9:58:12 GMT
I agreed with Arthurs post about the NBTA coming up with some alternatives to the current position, I think that could have some positives I don't know if you read any of my posts there but as I said, they just want to protect thier way of life and be allowed to stay in the same locality so they can access thier workplace and schools. Only CRT are getting in the way of that (and those backing them). If you were one of the rare breed who could live on a boat and you aren't getting in the way of the rest of us, what's the problem? The problem is that some people see them as scum who should be cleansed from the system. Some are jealous of thier lifestyle so whinge and complain despite not having the bottle to try out the lifestyle for themselves. Some just want to go along with the tide of 'normality' and criticise anything which threatens their comfort bubble. Fortunately they are smart enough to realise that internet forums are not the place to deal with serious real life issues. Protests and the media attention they get is far more productive than arguing with a bunch of old tossers like us. I agree with you completely and I believe the public at large do as well.I have been a cc nearly 35 years,out of choice not necessity and I give these idiots both barrels at every opportunity,indeed one flounced from here yesterday when he shirked the chance of some debate,instead thinking he could just spout rubbish unchallenged.I should say I have no children and no need of services as such but the question is "Does being a cc disenfranchise someone from society" I dont believe its a tenable argument to say that it does.I don't believe that CRT think they can win that argument either without them providing some constructive solutions such as affordable moorings etc.
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Post by kris on May 12, 2016 10:17:19 GMT
I believe that the reason Crt dropped the A-B-C-D idea of cruising to just saying a "progressive journey" is because it was pointed out that forcing people to move away from facilities and not return, could be seen as interfering with the right to a family life.
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Post by kris on May 12, 2016 11:06:43 GMT
]Fortunately they are smart enough to realise that internet forums are not the place to deal with serious real life issues. Protests and the media attention they get is far more productive than arguing with a bunch of old tossers like us. [ I don't know why you bother, even though you try to debate reasonably, the idiots just keep on with the same old, same old. It's a good job ultimately the issue won't be sorted on cwdf. I must admit Crt have done a good job of pitting boater against boater.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 11:25:19 GMT
]Fortunately they are smart enough to realise that internet forums are not the place to deal with serious real life issues. Protests and the media attention they get is far more productive than arguing with a bunch of old tossers like us. [ I don't know why you bother, even though you try to debate reasonably, the idiots just keep on with the same old, same old. It's a good job ultimately the issue won't be sorted on cwdf. I must admit Crt have done a good job of pitting boater against boater. Thats why Loafer flounced yesterday,its bad enough hearing it on CWDF without hearing it here.This is not an attempt to stymie any alternative viewpoint I hasten to add,but if you come on making contentious statements and a fellow poster offers a different opinion point by point,then hopefully its the start of some debate and people maybe becoming more understanding.I think the people on the other channel are seriously rattled by the NBTA and the apparent vulnerability of CRT
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Post by bills on May 12, 2016 13:45:07 GMT
ok - I'll bite. I haven't researched the issues, and I am prepared to be educated
For the record, among my favourite bits of the canal system are passing the Agenda 21 moorings in Oxford and the west end on the K&A . I like hippy boats.
I understand that a lot of grievance is felt by people who have signed up for, and invested in a lifestyle, and feel that the vague collection of jumpers which represent the goalposts have been moved. Lets say for the sake of argument that these existing licenceholders are given grandfather rights to remain where they are, provided they continue to pay their licence fees and keep their boats BSC compliant.
Why should anyone newly granted a CC licence have any "rights" other than those they agree to on the Ts and Cs? Buying and living on a boat is a choice.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 14:07:49 GMT
ok - I'll bite. I haven't researched the issues, and I am prepared to be educated For the record, among my favourite bits of the canal system are passing the Agenda 21 moorings in Oxford and the west end on the K&A . I like hippy boats. I understand that a lot of grievance is felt by people who have signed up for, and invested in a lifestyle, and feel that the vague collection of jumpers which represent the goalposts have been moved. Lets say for the sake of argument that these existing licenceholders are given grandfather rights to remain where they are, provided they continue to pay their licence fees and keep their boats BSC compliant. Why should anyone newly granted a CC licence have any "rights" other than those they agree to on the Ts and Cs? Buying and living on a boat is a choice. I am a continuous cruiser,a compliant one as regards CRT guidelines.I am not aware that anyone has asked to simply stay put where they are I don't believe that to be the issue.The issue to my mind, is that the 95 act doesn't mention distance so why should anyone loose their home for not moving far enough? As far as the twenty mile recommendation goes,it isn't far and not an issue for me personally but it has to be clear and evenly applied and not left in the hands of enforcement officers to make their own interpretation.I don't want to see Grandfather rights particularly, for what? Your last sentence makes a fair point,I would reply I don't want any rights,just my current ones respected.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2016 21:58:08 GMT
]Fortunately they are smart enough to realise that internet forums are not the place to deal with serious real life issues. Protests and the media attention they get is far more productive than arguing with a bunch of old tossers like us. [ I don't know why you bother, even though you try to debate reasonably, the idiots just keep on with the same old, same old. It's a good job ultimately the issue won't be sorted on cwdf. I must admit Crt have done a good job of pitting boater against boater. I think I might have over cooked it a bit over there so maybe you're right...
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Post by Delta9 on May 12, 2016 22:32:06 GMT
Why should anyone newly granted a CC licence have any "rights" other than those they agree to on the Ts and Cs? Buying and living on a boat is a choice. There aren't many choices left for people these days unless they are wealthy. If you don't want to live in overpriced shitty rental accommodation you are buggered. Living in a van is bloody hard work in the UK. You can't even buy your own plot of woodland and live in a yurt legally. Everything is over regulated. Just let people live their lives as they wish when they are causing no harm. Making them constantly shuffle about and comply with a bunch of un-necessary and constantly changing rules is fucking ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 4:48:10 GMT
Why should anyone newly granted a CC licence have any "rights" other than those they agree to on the Ts and Cs? Buying and living on a boat is a choice. There aren't many choices left for people these days unless they are wealthy. If you don't want to live in overpriced shitty rental accommodation you are buggered. Living in a van is bloody hard work in the UK. You can't even buy your own plot of woodland and live in a yurt legally. Everything is over regulated. Just let people live their lives as they wish when they are causing no harm. Making them constantly shuffle about and comply with a bunch of un-necessary and constantly changing rules is fucking ridiculous. Can't agree there Delta. Ely was being overrun by people living on narrowboats hogging most of the space making it very difficult for those of us visiting to get in. Why should Ely be for the sole preserve of those who choose to live on a boat without paying their way? Your model any stretch of mooring becomes a free for all. Hows that acceptable? I can't help but feel you miss the point that life ain't fair, I had the Earl of Upton Mill (an arsehole ex team leader of mine) complain that prince Charlie's development at Upton grange in Northampton would end up encroaching on his bit of rural utopia, he didn't want to live cheek by jowl on an estate - Hard lines I'm afraid, the rest of us manage.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 5:27:21 GMT
There aren't many choices left for people these days unless they are wealthy. If you don't want to live in overpriced shitty rental accommodation you are buggered. Living in a van is bloody hard work in the UK. You can't even buy your own plot of woodland and live in a yurt legally. Everything is over regulated. Just let people live their lives as they wish when they are causing no harm. Making them constantly shuffle about and comply with a bunch of un-necessary and constantly changing rules is fucking ridiculous. Can't agree there Delta. Ely was being overrun by people living on narrowboats hogging most of the space making it very difficult for those of us visiting to get in. Why should Ely be for the sole preserve of those who choose to live on a boat without paying their way? Your model any stretch of mooring becomes a free for all. Hows that acceptable? I can't help but feel you miss the point that life ain't fair, I had the Earl of Upton Mill (an arsehole ex team leader of mine) complain that prince Charlie's development at Upton grange in Northampton would end up encroaching on his bit of rural utopia, he didn't want to live cheek by jowl on an estate - Hard lines I'm afraid, the rest of us manage. It would be interesting to know how many people want to be liveaboards by choice and how many do it because they don't feel there is a choice financially. Would most liveaboards gladly give up their boat if they could live in a land based home at no extra expense? If so, creating affordable homes may be the answer. If not, more and more people might choose this alternative lifestyle and the government may have to find a way of accommodating it. Probably not fair if they all aettled on Ely though!
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 5:49:39 GMT
Can't agree there Delta. Ely was being overrun by people living on narrowboats hogging most of the space making it very difficult for those of us visiting to get in. Why should Ely be for the sole preserve of those who choose to live on a boat without paying their way? Your model any stretch of mooring becomes a free for all. Hows that acceptable? I can't help but feel you miss the point that life ain't fair, I had the Earl of Upton Mill (an arsehole ex team leader of mine) complain that prince Charlie's development at Upton grange in Northampton would end up encroaching on his bit of rural utopia, he didn't want to live cheek by jowl on an estate - Hard lines I'm afraid, the rest of us manage. It would be interesting to know how many people want to be liveaboards by choice and how many do it because they don't feel there is a choice financially. Would most liveaboards gladly give up their boat if they could live in a land based home at no extra expense? If so, creating affordable homes may be the answer. If not, more and more people might choose this alternative lifestyle and the government may have to find a way of accommodating it. Probably not fair if they all aettled on Ely though! It's a wider social issue, something that tinkering and fucking about with the housing sector has never solved. Right to buy? That worked in so much as it got the then Tory government a few more votes but took huge chunks of social housing out of the equation. Help to buy? Hmmm, my sister's looked into that, not worth the effort. Force a minimum amount of social housing in builders on new builds? Again, tinkering and fucking about at the edges. I don't know what the answer is but as we live in a society that is geared to the vested interests protecting their bit I can't see a resolution to it anytime soon. It boils down to this doesn't it? (Any excuse ) As for Ely, Cambridge have decided to follow the route Ely have taken. 48 hours, no return for 7 days, penalty charge enforced if breached. Weirdly Bedford, Northampton and Peterborough don't have the problems anywhere near as bad.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 6:37:51 GMT
Can't agree there Delta. Ely was being overrun by people living on narrowboats hogging most of the space making it very difficult for those of us visiting to get in. Why should Ely be for the sole preserve of those who choose to live on a boat without paying their way? Your model any stretch of mooring becomes a free for all. Hows that acceptable? I can't help but feel you miss the point that life ain't fair, I had the Earl of Upton Mill (an arsehole ex team leader of mine) complain that prince Charlie's development at Upton grange in Northampton would end up encroaching on his bit of rural utopia, he didn't want to live cheek by jowl on an estate - Hard lines I'm afraid, the rest of us manage. It would be interesting to know how many people want to be liveaboards by choice and how many do it because they don't feel there is a choice financially. Would most liveaboards gladly give up their boat if they could live in a land based home at no extra expense? If so, creating affordable homes may be the answer. If not, more and more people might choose this alternative lifestyle and the government may have to find a way of accommodating it. Probably not fair if they all aettled on Ely though! In my experience most young couples especially with kids and working are there for Social Housing reasons.The Hippy/New Age Boater has always existed down in the West Country and seldom seen elsewhere.The other two groups are the Retired who more often than not are "doing the system" and the Singleton (originally)who has come to the water for a variety of reasons and fallen in love with it.This is what I think of when I think of live aboard continuous cruisers. I suspect most of these boaters with the exception of the Hippy/New Age possibly don't want to see linear housing estates with washing drying on the hedge.The Hippy/New Age people differ as they see themselves as a distinct social group and groups tend to be together by their very nature, I would love more input from people on the forum contradicting the above or indeed suggesting some socio/economic solutions.I remember years ago getting up close to some of these people at the protests over the Newbury Bypass so I am by nature sympathetic to their plight,in fact I may go as far as to say I believe we as a society need these Hippy/New Age boaters perhaps more than we realise.
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Post by Delta9 on May 13, 2016 7:30:50 GMT
There aren't many choices left for people these days unless they are wealthy. If you don't want to live in overpriced shitty rental accommodation you are buggered. Living in a van is bloody hard work in the UK. You can't even buy your own plot of woodland and live in a yurt legally. Everything is over regulated. Just let people live their lives as they wish when they are causing no harm. Making them constantly shuffle about and comply with a bunch of un-necessary and constantly changing rules is fucking ridiculous. Can't agree there Delta. Ely was being overrun by people living on narrowboats hogging most of the space making it very difficult for those of us visiting to get in. Why should Ely be for the sole preserve of those who choose to live on a boat without paying their way? Your model any stretch of mooring becomes a free for all. Hows that acceptable? I can't help but feel you miss the point that life ain't fair, I had the Earl of Upton Mill (an arsehole ex team leader of mine) complain that prince Charlie's development at Upton grange in Northampton would end up encroaching on his bit of rural utopia, he didn't want to live cheek by jowl on an estate - Hard lines I'm afraid, the rest of us manage. If other options were available there wouldn't be a problem. I originally wanted to buy some woodland and build a small cabin or park up there in my motorhome, but it isn't permitted. My friend bought 6 acres of woods and set up home in a little caravan. He had only been there three weeks when a local busy body walking her dog on his land (trespassing) spotted him and reported him. He found an eviction notice pinned to his door. If you can't even live on your own land when you have acres of it what else are you going to do? You'll never catch me living in an expensive and shit rental flat in a town I don't want to be in. If my lifestyle pisses people off that is tough shit. They should have let me buy my woodland and build my cabin. As you say, life isn't fair. If you won't let me live on my own land don't be surprised when I start living on someone else's..
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