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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 15:27:30 GMT
Just proves you can write a report that cleverly ignores the blindingly obvious. Agreed. Delta9 has seriously gone down in my estimation. Why? Because he countered your arguments with some actual evidence rather than what some bloke down the pub told him? (paraphrase alert) You are just spouting the same UKIP shite again just like you did on CWDF when you could. I'm wavering at the moment about which way to vote after been sure for months but I am at least trying to base my decision on some sort of factual evidence and certainly am not swayed by the tripe I read on here or what I used to read on CWDF.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 13, 2016 15:44:11 GMT
Votes mean nothing when they end up in the rubbish bin.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 15:46:43 GMT
Agreed. Delta9 has seriously gone down in my estimation. Why? Because he countered your arguments with some actual evidence rather than what some bloke down the pub told him? (paraphrase alert) You are just spouting the same UKIP shite again just like you did on CWDF when you could. I'm wavering at the moment about which way to vote after been sure for months but I am at least trying to base my decision on some sort of factual evidence and certainly am not swayed by the tripe I read on here or what I used to read on CWDF. Factual evidence can be hard to find Tripe less so,the most perplexing aspect being its prevalence in places where you would traditionally look for balanced educated opinion.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 13, 2016 15:48:57 GMT
Agreed. Delta9 has seriously gone down in my estimation. Why? Because he countered your arguments with some actual evidence rather than what some bloke down the pub told him? (paraphrase alert) You are just spouting the same UKIP shite again just like you did on CWDF when you could. I'm wavering at the moment about which way to vote after been sure for months but I am at least trying to base my decision on some sort of factual evidence and certainly am not swayed by the tripe I read on here or what I used to read on CWDF. No, I have based my views on my own first-hand experience of an industry I have worked in for 30 years, and in which I hold both a CPC and an Operator's Licence, and on the eu's stated aims for the future of that industry.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 16:15:54 GMT
Why? Because he countered your arguments with some actual evidence rather than what some bloke down the pub told him? (paraphrase alert) You are just spouting the same UKIP shite again just like you did on CWDF when you could. I'm wavering at the moment about which way to vote after been sure for months but I am at least trying to base my decision on some sort of factual evidence and certainly am not swayed by the tripe I read on here or what I used to read on CWDF. Factual evidence can be hard to find Tripe less so,the most perplexing aspect being its prevalence in places where you would traditionally look for balanced educated opinion. I agree totally. hard facts are hard to come by and that is why so many people I know are doing what a loads are - listening to garbage (on bother sides) much of which is nothing more than anecdote or unfounded speculation.
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Post by peterboat on May 13, 2016 16:20:43 GMT
Agreed. Delta9 has seriously gone down in my estimation. Why? Because he countered your arguments with some actual evidence rather than what some bloke down the pub told him? (paraphrase alert) You are just spouting the same UKIP shite again just like you did on CWDF when you could. I'm wavering at the moment about which way to vote after been sure for months but I am at least trying to base my decision on some sort of factual evidence and certainly am not swayed by the tripe I read on here or what I used to read on CWDF. Come on Martin jump the fence, you need to do your own research really, otherwise you are swamped by utter tripe from both sides. Last nights tv wasnt bad from Dimblby it was a good strong discussion but the brexits won through easily for me no hysterics just good strong thought out arguments
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 16:28:15 GMT
Why? Because he countered your arguments with some actual evidence rather than what some bloke down the pub told him? (paraphrase alert) You are just spouting the same UKIP shite again just like you did on CWDF when you could. I'm wavering at the moment about which way to vote after been sure for months but I am at least trying to base my decision on some sort of factual evidence and certainly am not swayed by the tripe I read on here or what I used to read on CWDF. Come on Martin jump the fence, you need to do your own research really, otherwise you are swamped by utter tripe from both sides. Last nights tv wasnt bad from Dimblby it was a good strong discussion but the brexits won through easily for me no hysterics just good strong thought out arguments I think Martin has already said he made his decision and is now undecided so presumably he has done a fair bit of research already
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 13, 2016 16:59:18 GMT
I agree totally. hard facts are hard to come by and that is why so many people I know are doing what a loads are - listening to garbage (on bother sides) much of which is nothing more than anecdote or unfounded speculation. You vote whichever way you want. I will be voting for the survival of my business and my livelihood, which means "out".
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 16:59:24 GMT
Why? Because he countered your arguments with some actual evidence rather than what some bloke down the pub told him? (paraphrase alert) You are just spouting the same UKIP shite again just like you did on CWDF when you could. I'm wavering at the moment about which way to vote after been sure for months but I am at least trying to base my decision on some sort of factual evidence and certainly am not swayed by the tripe I read on here or what I used to read on CWDF. Come on Martin jump the fence, you need to do your own research really, otherwise you are swamped by utter tripe from both sides. Last nights tv wasnt bad from Dimblby it was a good strong discussion but the brexits won through easily for me no hysterics just good strong thought out arguments That is my point, I am trying to research it but it's hard. I am not prepared to 'jump the fence' based on some of the rhetoric that is being pumped out by both sides. I deliberately didn't watch QT last night because I knew it would be full of the same old tripe.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 13, 2016 17:14:06 GMT
That is my point, I am trying to research it but it's hard. I am not prepared to 'jump the fence' based on some of the rhetoric that is being pumped out by both sides. I deliberately didn't watch QT last night because I knew it would be full of the same old tripe. My advice- base your decision on what eu membership has done for or against you, and what it will for and against your children. Base your vote entirely on your own life experiences, and certainly don't be swayed by any of the vested interests who pop up on TV.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 17:30:16 GMT
I agree totally. hard facts are hard to come by and that is why so many people I know are doing what a loads are - listening to garbage (on bother sides) much of which is nothing more than anecdote or unfounded speculation. You vote whichever way you want. I will be voting for the survival of my business and my livelihood, which means "out". I sir shall be joining you.
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Post by sabcat on May 13, 2016 17:35:35 GMT
The key to understanding this report is on page 2
New evidence in this Report shows that the areas of the UK with large increases in EU immigration did not suffer greater falls in the jobs and pay of UK-born workers. The big falls in wages after 2008 are due to the global financial crisis and a weak economic recovery, not to immigration.
And this is almost certainly true and the report gives us empirical evidence to support this conclusion. The end of it? Of course not, because what this tells us what has happened not what would have happened. Immigrants have on the whole gone to areas with more employment opportunities, obviously, they've come to work. Areas with more employment - or more employers competing for workers - have seen lower falls than areas with fewer employers. Obvious. Has their been less workers chasing the jobs in all areas, wages would have fallen less.
The overall conclusion of that line - the financial crisis is the cause of depressed wages is correct. The answer to this particular conundrum is available with or without Brexit - Organise. Join a union and fight to maintain conditions and (as a mate of mine has been doing at a meat processing plant in Scotland) that might mean that you need to get English language courses sorted out for Romanian colleagues.
With or without immigration though, wages would have fallen. The malaise facing capitalism is far more complex than a racist in a lorry doing deliveries will ever be capable of understanding.
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 13, 2016 17:53:19 GMT
The malaise facing capitalism is far more complex than a racist in a lorry doing deliveries will ever be capable of understanding. I'll do you a deal. If you could find one single person in this world who knows me who would describe me as a racist, then my mother is a filthy slut and the world would be a better place if the filthy slut was dragged into a car, was gang raped and had her throat slit. And if you couldn't, then your mother is a filthy slut and the world would be a better place if the filthy slut was dragged into a car, was gang raped and had her throat slit. Your mother.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2016 18:55:52 GMT
Jesus, I never thought the professor's sketch from the Mary Whitehouse Experience would be acted out on here!
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Post by Higgs on May 13, 2016 19:24:23 GMT
I don't need to hear or read any more on the EU debate. The EU is a fraud and delusional. Theory is fine, but in reality it's a dog's dinner. On a person to person basis, I'll accept anyone, from whatever part of the world they come from, if they're not absolute w@nkers. But, I do sometimes look at the number a foreign people at work and wonder what the local population are missing out on. Whether I like these foreign people or not, it doesn't stop me thinking that each position taken by a foreign worker is an opportunity taken away from a 'local'.
An open door policy is an opportunity for continentals. I can tell you, some are in no way interested in UK. Some are indeed, after years living here, still registering their cars in their own countries, to avoid paying UK vehicle excise duty.
So, when the continentals are stressing the UK resources, if it all goes pear shaped, some of us will have to remain, because it's our home, and some will be packing their bags and moving to greener pastures, because it isn't theirs'; they will follow the money.
Fucking housing. The government have obviously thought long and hard about how to accommodate the increasing immigration numbers, and in their usual uselessness have done almost naff all to build or plan enough housing.
Can you trust a politician - NO!! That's enough to swing my mind against the EU. Have they done much to counteract corruption - NO!! That's enough for me to vote out. Do they have much of a concept of equality in their own country - NO!! Could they organise a piss up in a brewery - NO!! £1.6 trillion of mess - Do you want to give the same people that caused it the benefit of the doubt - NO!! They need no excuse to blame for that mess or any likely mess that leaving the EU would cause, they can fuck up in any system. The EU is not a democratically sympathetic system, it's an opportunist's charter.
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