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Jun 21, 2017 9:42:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 9:42:26 GMT
That's why I was asking for pointers Nick. No need to be a dick..lol I point to typing into google "pol pot currency". 1st hit ..."Cambodia is the only country in the world ever to have abolished money"... Not too hard, was it? So there was just the one 'social experiment' then! Lol
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Jun 21, 2017 9:45:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 9:45:15 GMT
Are you suggesting that the monetary system actually helps prevent dictorships? Serious question.
No, I'm suggesting that where money has been "eliminated", it was in 100% of cases an unmitigated disaster. And having been to Cambodia 20 years or so ago, it remained severly damaged by the experiment of 25 or so years earlier.
100% of one case then? As I said, dictorship rarely benefits the majority, is that what you want in this country?
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Jun 21, 2017 9:51:06 GMT
Post by Telemachus on Jun 21, 2017 9:51:06 GMT
I point to typing into google "pol pot currency". 1st hit ..."Cambodia is the only country in the world ever to have abolished money"... Not too hard, was it? So there was just the one 'social experiment' then! Lol Fortunately, yes. But I have to say, if you are going to start a thread about abolishing money, you do yourself no favours by being oblivious to the fact that its been tried before, and in your lifetime, with massive worldwide publicity of the aftermath (it was the 70s)!
Never mind, you did say in your OP "Please feel free to pull it apart, I'm always happy to learn." - so you won't have been disappointed!
But picking up on the idealogy behind your post, the important thing to bear in mind is that humans are still very tribal and driven by genetics and evolution. They want to protect and get the best for their own immediate family, their local communities second, and somewhere at the bottom of the list, funny brown people speaking in tongues from far far away whom they have never met. And especially if they follow a different religion. (which is why religion is the second worst thing after money. No actually, it is the first worst thing).
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Jun 21, 2017 9:53:07 GMT
Post by Telemachus on Jun 21, 2017 9:53:07 GMT
No, I'm suggesting that where money has been "eliminated", it was in 100% of cases an unmitigated disaster. And having been to Cambodia 20 years or so ago, it remained severly damaged by the experiment of 25 or so years earlier.
100% of one case then? As I said, dictorship rarely benefits the majority, is that what you want in this country? Yes, 100% means in all cases, regardless of the number.
Why are you deflecting the argument to suggest that I might want dictatorship bearing in mind I have not hinted at that?
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Jun 21, 2017 10:01:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 10:01:39 GMT
100% of one case then? As I said, dictorship rarely benefits the majority, is that what you want in this country? Yes, 100% means in all cases, regardless of the number.
Why are you deflecting the argument to suggest that I might want dictatorship bearing in mind I have not hinted at that?
That's why I asked it as a question. Don't you think that if we carry on down this road, where the few people left with billions at thier disposal can use it to control who they like, we will end up with a dictatorship? Isn't that what those who support May want? To be fair, I don't really know your political views on the same way you may be making assumptions about my beliefs. That's the beauty of discussion. Although there are hints that may get shut down in the name of terrorism.
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Jun 21, 2017 10:13:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 10:13:41 GMT
So there was just the one 'social experiment' then! Lol Fortunately, yes. But I have to say, if you are going to start a thread about abolishing money, you do yourself no favours by being oblivious to the fact that its been tried before, and in your lifetime, with massive worldwide publicity of the aftermathΒ (it was the 70s)!
Never mind, you did say in your OP "Please feel free to pull it apart, I'm always happy to learn." - so you won't have been disappointed!
But picking up on the idealogy behind your post, the important thing to bear in mind is that humans are still very tribal and driven by genetics and evolution. They want to protect and get the best forΒ their own immediate family, their local communities second, and somewhere at the bottom of the list, funny brown people speaking in tongues from far far away whom they have never met. And especially if they follow a different religion. (which is why religion is the second worst thing after money. No actually, it is the first worst thing).
I agree with your last paragraph. It's human nature. I doubt we will ever find the perfect solution. The trouble is that it seems only those who are thicked skinned and self driven have the confidence to become leaders. Shy sensitive types don't!
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Jun 21, 2017 10:23:31 GMT
Post by Telemachus on Jun 21, 2017 10:23:31 GMT
I'm not sure that things have changed that much in, say, the last 200 years. Even then, there was a massive gap between rich and poor. And before that it was more a case of physical might is right, rather than economic might.
If you have a system where there is no incentive to work hard and create wealth, folk just bumble along doing the minimum and no progress is made. We would still be in the dark ages. I should know, my first job was with a nationalised industry (British Aerospace) where nobody cared about productivity or profit, and we spent most of our time pissing about going to the pub etc.
If you have a system where hard work, productiveness, inventiveness etc are materially rewarded, well that is capitalism. Extreme unrestrained capitalism causes large differences in wealth and an "unfair" society.
So neither system works well. But I suggest that capitalism, restrained by legislation and taxation so as not to become too extreme, is the least worst option. We haven't got the balance right yet, but the internet / global communication does help to show up the embarrassing gulf between rich and poor and increases pressure to redress the balance a bit. So I am hopeful that things will improve and we aren't heading for global dictatorship.
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Jun 21, 2017 10:32:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 10:32:53 GMT
I'm not sure that things have changed that much in, say, the last 200 years. Even then, there was a massive gap between rich and poor. And before that it was more a case of physical might is right, rather than economic might. If you have a system where there is no incentive to work hard and create wealth, folk just bumble along doing the minimum and no progress is made. We would still be in the dark ages. I should know, my first job was with a nationalised industry (British Aerospace) where nobody cared about productivity or profit, and we spent most of our time pissing about going to the pub etc. If you have a system where hard work, productiveness, inventiveness etc are materially rewarded, well that is capitalism. Extreme unrestrained capitalism causes large differences in wealth and an "unfair" society. So neither system works well. But I suggest that capitalism, restrained by legislation and taxation so as not to become too extreme, is the least worst option. We haven't got the balance right yet, but the internet / global communication does help to show up the embarrassing gulf between rich and poor and increases pressure to redress the balance a bit. So I am hopeful that things will improve and we aren't heading for global dictatorship. Yes, basically we will always be stuck with greed and selfishness at both ends of the spectrum so we are stuck where we are where some minorites at both ends of the spectrum use nice people for thier own end. I thInk Brexit was the first step in reversing global dictatorship. It seems that that is being compromised now though.
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Jun 21, 2017 14:50:56 GMT
Post by peterboat on Jun 21, 2017 14:50:56 GMT
I went to Cuba a few years ago and the locals called our tourist dollars toilet paper! whilst they were ok for us they had no use to them as they couldnt buy what they wanted. I enjoyed the holiday and loved the people but its not on my list of places to live.
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Jun 21, 2017 15:35:09 GMT
Post by naughtyfox on Jun 21, 2017 15:35:09 GMT
?? what has N Korea got to do with Pol Pot ?? They both got an o in 'em.
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Jun 21, 2017 16:09:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 16:09:03 GMT
?? Β what has N Korea got to do with Pol Pot ?? They both got an o in 'em. Ok, look, I am particularly shit at history and wasn't great at English TBH until I started to go on a couple of forums. It was cock up which I obviously failed to bluff my way out of.. .
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Jun 21, 2017 16:18:27 GMT
Post by Andyberg on Jun 21, 2017 16:18:27 GMT
They both got an o in 'em. Bit of a Punky 'shower of noise' tune to remind you of those days π
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Jun 21, 2017 20:21:53 GMT
Post by bodger on Jun 21, 2017 20:21:53 GMT
They both got an o in 'em. Ok, look, I am particularly shit at history and wasn't great at English TBH until I started to go on a couple of forums. It was cock up which I obviously failed to bluff my way out of.. . I tried to reply but it got lost in transmission. probably not worth trying again. I can't even get the text outside the quote box.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:30:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 23:30:57 GMT
That was interesting reading about Pol Pot, well pretty disturbing actually. Nothing to do with removing the monetary system, a lot to do with being a nasty dictator.
Anyway I've already said as long as you have people who don't put in what they take I guess we are stuck with it.
What is interesting is that they are still reluctant to use the reintroduced Riel out there in preference to the US dollar. Those Americans get everywhere.
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Post by Saltysplash on Jun 22, 2017 6:47:58 GMT
I love money. All money. (growing excited again) I've always wanted money. To handle! To touch! The smell of the rain-washed florin! The lure of the lira! The glitter and the glory of the guinea! (stands up ) The romance of the ruble! (stands on chair) The feel of the franc! (stands on desk) The heel of the deutschmark! (stomps foot) The cold antiseptic sting of the Swiss franc! And the sunburnt splendor of the Australian dollar!
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