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Post by tadworth on May 17, 2016 23:13:39 GMT
This is the basis behind the slow but sure setting up for charging for overstaying, signs are changing to x " days free mooring" , and patrol notice forms have a section for charges now, so who agrees that a VM is a genuine facility, and who doesn't ?
Why does it matter ? Because by law CRT can only charge for "services and facilities" .
And if you don't agree, at some point it will have to go before a court to decide. Because if a VM can be a facility then literally every other piece of canal infrastructure can be, and can be charged for in future., boating could get very expensive in the future if a facility has no facilities.
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Post by kris on May 18, 2016 7:02:30 GMT
Crt's idea of heaven, "every boat has to have a home mooring and pays for every nights mooring when away from is home mooring." What's frightening though is a lot of boaters are sleep walking into something like this. It's llike the frogs in the boiling water, If the frog is in the water already and the temperature is raised gradually it won't notice. If you try to drop it into already boiling water it will jump out.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 7:06:37 GMT
This is the basis behind the slow but sure setting up for charging for overstaying, signs are changing to x " days free mooring" , and patrol notice forms have a section for charges now, so who agrees that a VM is a genuine facility, and who doesn't ? Why does it matter ? Because by law CRT can only charge for "services and facilities" . And if you don't agree, at some point it will have to go before a court to decide. Because if a VM can be a facility then literally every other piece of canal infrastructure can be, and can be charged for in future., boating could get very expensive in the future if a facility has no facilities. You want this on the History Channel,I saw you post this on CWDF months back,has there been any change since then? This is not about making money and CRT have never pretended otherwise,it's about charging people like yourself that feel it's ok to abandon near derelict craft on Fenny Stratford VM for weeks on end feigning engine trouble and inconveniencing your fellow boaters
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 7:15:37 GMT
It gets a bit repetitive all these predictions of Armageddon, thing change for good and bad and life evolves.I have been hearing this supposed Mooring Agenda for 30 years or more and I am still living as I did then.In fact I blame CRT for the incompetent management and the creation of such a terrible distrustful climate that rumour and conjecture just seems to flourish no matter how distorted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 7:16:11 GMT
A court won't be able to decide it. CRT can clearly charge for a facility. They just have to convince all and sundry that providing the ability to moor in a busy location, i.e. a 48 hr mooring, is a facility they provide.
CRT have done this, with help from nabo, IWA, and the NAG group. There is no going back. The only option now, is for boaters to stop any more being developed, which of course won't happen.
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Post by kris on May 18, 2016 8:32:40 GMT
Indeed the London mooring consultation is bound to introduce lots more 48h moorings, with overstaying charges. Unfortunately saying I told you so, isn't going to make me feel better.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 8:51:47 GMT
A court won't be able to decide it. CRT can clearly charge for a facility. They just have to convince all and sundry that providing the ability to moor in a busy location, i.e. a 48 hr mooring, is a facility they provide. CRT have done this, with help from nabo, IWA, and the NAG group. There is no going back. The only option now, is for boaters to stop any more being developed, which of course won't happen. I recently passed through Stoke Bruerne. I saw only 2 boats moored up on the very long stretch between the tunnel and the trip boat reserved moorings near the top lock. This is on a beautiful day in mid May. Last summer it was similar. A few years ago most of the tunnel pound would be full of a complete range of boats. We never had to pass through without finding a mooring though. This is clearly due to the effect of changing them from 14 day to 48h with £25 per night overstay charges. There were about 6 boats in the long pound further down which is 7 day in the summer season. Doesn't this show that boaters (with or without a home moorings) want to spend a few days at a nice destination without the anxiety of risking fines and black marks. The pubs in Stoke Bruerne must be losing a lot of business over this (I understand they have complained) and visitors must be wondering where all the boats have gone. This is supposed to be one of the main historic canal attractions in the country for crying out loud. I know that a certain person on the other channel, who seems to know the law on this, believes the charges are not backed by law. So far nobody there has prooved otherwise. The whole thing of saying they can charge for 'facilities' rides on the definition of 'facility' and whether our licence fee aleady covers the cost of mooring on the tow path side (within the law). The fact that our licence fee has always covered use of VM's, water points and Elsan points etc kind of makes CRT's argument very weak. The other question is whether CRT have the legal power to allow boaters to overide the 1995 act and charge them to stay more than 14 days. I'm not sure whether the NBTA would be prepared to take on these questions in court. It's more likely an individual will take them on by refusing to pay the £25 charge/fine. With crowd funding I'm pretty sure they would get a lot of support now as more and more boaters are getting P'd off with the signs...because as far as I can see...that's all they are!
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 9:23:29 GMT
Indeed the London mooring consultation is bound to introduce lots more 48h moorings, with overstaying charges. Unfortunately saying I told you so, isn't going to make me feel better. [br 48 hour moorings and charging for overstaying will find a lot of support amongst the boating community.Some people feel that buying a boat gives them ownership of the towpath.It doesn't nor does it give you the right to stay put either
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Post by peterboat on May 18, 2016 9:55:41 GMT
We up here have a lot of 24/48/72 hour visitor moorings they are popular with a high turnover of boats which is the point if they were 14 day moorings they would be useless shopping would be difficult and water the same
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 10:11:10 GMT
We up here have a lot of 24/48/72 hour visitor moorings they are popular with a high turnover of boats which is the point if they were 14 day moorings they would be useless shopping would be difficult and water the same Have they got £25 overstay fine notices? How many boats can moor up on these 24/48/72 hour sites? The tunnel pound 48h moorings at SB could take 15-20 boats.
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Post by peterboat on May 18, 2016 10:25:06 GMT
We up here have a lot of 24/48/72 hour visitor moorings they are popular with a high turnover of boats which is the point if they were 14 day moorings they would be useless shopping would be difficult and water the same Have they got £25 overstay fine notices? How many boats can moor up on these 24/48/72 hour sites? The tunnel pound 48h moorings at SB could take 15-20 boats. no signs but the amount of boats varies from site to site At Doncaster you have to be prepared to brest up I have numerous times. but boats cant brest up to me because of wheelhouse which locks
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 10:40:24 GMT
Have they got £25 overstay fine notices? How many boats can moor up on these 24/48/72 hour sites? The tunnel pound 48h moorings at SB could take 15-20 boats. no signs but the amount of boats varies from site to site At Doncaster you have to be prepared to brest up I have numerous times. but boats cant brest up to me because of wheelhouse which locks Just suggesting the balance might be better up there. Maybe CRT are too afraid to take on an over enthusiastic Yorkshireman.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 10:47:44 GMT
I don't really care if they put 48 hr moorings in where it's really necessary, as long as there are 14 day moorings either side, and bloody dredged and maintained so folk can use them.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 10:57:36 GMT
I don't really care if they put 48 hr moorings in where it's really necessary, as long as there are 14 day moorings either side, and bloody dredged and maintained so folk can use them. I suppose it's the bit about getting the balance right again. Anyway, what's dredging? As regards the £25 fines/charges, does anyone actually think they are fair? Or legal even?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 11:17:09 GMT
I don't really care if they put 48 hr moorings in where it's really necessary, as long as there are 14 day moorings either side, and bloody dredged and maintained so folk can use them. I suppose it's the bit about getting the balance right again. Anyway, what's dredging? As regards the £25 fines/charges, does anyone actually think they are fair? Or legal even? Clearly as you suggest the balance is far from right at Stoke Bruerne,where they have ten volunteers logging boats that moor there.
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