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Post by kris on Jul 12, 2017 9:51:30 GMT
Crt have undertaken a Massive project to gentrify the waterways, they haven't been completely open about this. But this is what they are attempting to do. When an area on land is gentrified, the prices rise massively forcing the original inhabitants out. To me this would be a shame, because it's all the different characters that you meet on the water that makes it interesting. Yes this includes hire boaters and the shiny boat brigade, I wouldn't want them forced off the water either. so I'm well aware there are boaters that are looking forward to this, Nick being an example. But I'm wondering how many other boaters think the gentrification of the waterways is a good thing?
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 12, 2017 9:56:37 GMT
Good grief, haven't you got anything better to do than whinge on and on. And on and on. And one and on. <repeat as infinitum>
Anyway, the waterways aren't being gentrified, they are being slumified by more and more tatty liveaboard boaters who pile all their junk on the towpath and never move, live on the dole and steal from each other.
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Post by kris on Jul 12, 2017 10:05:01 GMT
Anyway, the waterways aren't being gentrified, they are being slumified by more and more tatty liveaboard boaters who pile all their junk on the towpath and never move, live on the dole and steal from each other. So start your own thread about it, and leave this thread for those that want to discuss what is a serious issue concerning the future of the waterways.
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Post by Telemachus on Jul 12, 2017 11:13:08 GMT
Well your thread isn't getting much interest. Anyway, putting aside my desire to wind you up this is what I really think:
It all depends on the timescales you are looking at. When the canals were first built and for 150 years or so afterwards, it was entirely a working environment. Then as the canals fell into disuse a new breed of middle class boater took over, spurred by Tom Rolt etc. When I was first boating in the 60s and 70s it was pretty much a middle class activity. One thing I've noticed since being back to canals over the last 20 years is a great increase in working class boaters. Working class leisure boaters as well as working class liveaboards. So the "gentrification factor" has gone up and down over the years. You have, I think, only been boating for a couple of years? and this is not enough time to see any significant long term trend. Maybe CRT have an agenda to turn the canals into a linear recreational park. They probably do, especially since they have to go for broad appeal to get funding on behalf of a diverse user body. But even if they do, I don't see that as a problem for a law abiding liveaboard, whether he be CCing or on a mooring. There has been a massive increase in liveaboard CCing over the past 20 years or so, and there is now a "backlash" to try to keep some vague sense of control to prevent some areas being overrun with static "house boats" (too late for London!). In general I think it is working, and there seems less abuse of visitor moorings by all "flavours" of boater (VM-overstaying is by no means the sole domain of liveaboards!). I've no doubt CRT are getting a lot of things wrong, but it would be worse if they did nothing.
So IMO any gentrification you are seeing (which personally I don't see) is a mere blip in a 250 year history.
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Post by kris on Jul 12, 2017 11:26:23 GMT
I've told you before Nick I don't care what you think.
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Post by Gone on Jul 12, 2017 11:30:32 GMT
I think the gentrification is more to do with the canals and surrounding buildings than the boaters. The up side of clearing the slum factories and general 'no go ' state of some urban canals and making them into safe, desirable areas in which to live is a good thing. The downside is that the 'nice' people that move in to the new desirable canalside properties will gradually buy the locals out as happens on land in London, reducing affordable homes. Additionally the last thing a number of these 'nice' people living in their 'nice' canal side property wants is to have itinerant boaters burning smoky fuel with engines running mooring anywhere near them. I doubt gentrification can be stopped, but there needs to be more consideration of how to manage boats that wish to moor and stay awhile, without visitor moorings for longer than a day being pushed to the outskirts of the towns. I wonder if this is what CRT actually wants to happen as this will result in more wealthy people having a vested interest in the canals being maintained and funded, with pretty boats going past, and they pay the taxes that fund CRT.........
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Post by Jim on Jul 12, 2017 11:37:29 GMT
Don't worry Kris, borrow magnetman's striped blazer, address the EO as "My good man" while drinking from a china mug with your pinkie stuck out. Tha'll be reet lad.
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Post by tomsk on Jul 12, 2017 11:42:30 GMT
Crt have undertaken a Massive project to gentrify the waterways, they haven't been completely open about this. But this is what they are attempting to do. When an area on land is gentrified, the prices rise massively forcing the original inhabitants out. To me this would be a shame, because it's all the different characters that you meet on the water that makes it interesting. Yes this includes hire boaters and the shiny boat brigade, I wouldn't want them forced off the water either. so I'm well aware there are boaters that are looking forward to this, Nick being an example. But I'm wondering how many other boaters think the gentrification of the waterways is a good thing? What is this massive project to gentrify the waterways of which you speak? Who is being forced of the waterways? You really need to set out your arguments in a more thoughtful and factual way so people can respond and discuss. It's not really good enough to throw a spurious claim, backed up with a non-specific allegation of impropriety or people will think you are speaking a big bag full of bollox again Kriss. Give us some verifiable FACTS please, not just a mess of jumbled twaddle.
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Post by Gone on Jul 12, 2017 12:04:28 GMT
Crt have undertaken a Massive project to gentrify the waterways, they haven't been completely open about this. But this is what they are attempting to do. When an area on land is gentrified, the prices rise massively forcing the original inhabitants out. To me this would be a shame, because it's all the different characters that you meet on the water that makes it interesting. Yes this includes hire boaters and the shiny boat brigade, I wouldn't want them forced off the water either. so I'm well aware there are boaters that are looking forward to this, Nick being an example. But I'm wondering how many other boaters think the gentrification of the waterways is a good thing? What is this massive project to gentrify the waterways of which you speak? Who is being forced of the waterways? You really need to set out your arguments in a more thoughtful and factual way so people can respond and discuss. It's not really good enough to throw a spurious claim, backed up with a non-specific allegation of impropriety or people will think you are speaking a big bag full of bollox again Kriss. Give us some verifiable FACTS please, not just a mess of jumbled twaddle. But gentrification of the waterways is happening and many desirable properties are appearing in the towns and cities alongside canals. So far - more on rivers and local authority land, and Oxford springs to mind - but mooring restrictions to force out the liveaboards seem to be increasing. Gentrification is a slow non-reversible process which is only obvious when it's well established. Is there a specific CRT project?, I doubt it, but is it a result that CRT would see as being desirable and therefore to be supported by CRT? then I think yes. The more desirable the waterways the greater the CRT earnings potential coupled with investment from outside of CRT into those areas and pressure from the residents onto local authorities and central government as well to invest in those areas, including funding CRT and in return the residents have an expectation that CRT will only allow pretty boats to moor nearby. - I suspect it is inevitable.
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Post by tomsk on Jul 12, 2017 12:09:10 GMT
What is this massive project to gentrify the waterways of which you speak? Who is being forced of the waterways? You really need to set out your arguments in a more thoughtful and factual way so people can respond and discuss. It's not really good enough to throw a spurious claim, backed up with a non-specific allegation of impropriety or people will think you are speaking a big bag full of bollox again Kriss. Give us some verifiable FACTS please, not just a mess of jumbled twaddle. But gentrification of the waterways is happening and many desirable properties are appearing in the towns and cities alongside canals. So far - more on rivers and local authority land, and Oxford springs to mind - but mooring restrictions to force out the liveaboards seem to be increasing. Gentrification is a slow non-reversible process which is only obvious when it's well established. Is there a specific CRT project?, I doubt it, but is it a result that CRT would see as being desirable and therefore to be supported by CRT? then I think yes. The more desirable the waterways the greater the CRT earnings potential coupled with investment from outside of CRT into those areas and pressure from the residents onto local authorities and central government as well to invest in those areas, including funding CRT and in return the residents have an expectation that CRT will only allow pretty boats to moor nearby. - I suspect it is inevitable. So do we campaign against the upkeep of the waterways/towpaths on the basis that they will become nicer places to be?
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Post by kris on Jul 12, 2017 12:19:57 GMT
I see the gimp is out of his box again.
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Post by tomsk on Jul 12, 2017 12:25:33 GMT
I see the gimp is out of his box again. Have you anything worthwhile to contribute?
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Post by kris on Jul 12, 2017 12:28:55 GMT
I think the gentrification is more to do with the canals and surrounding buildings than the boaters. The up side of clearing the slum factories and general 'no go ' state of some urban canals and making them into safe, desirable areas in which to live is a good thing. The downside is that the 'nice' people that move in to the new desirable canalside properties will gradually buy the locals out as happens on land in London, reducing affordable homes. Additionally the last thing a number of these 'nice' people living in their 'nice' canal side property wants is to have itinerant boaters burning smoky fuel with engines running mooring anywhere near them. I doubt gentrification can be stopped, but there needs to be more consideration of how to manage boats that wish to moor and stay awhile, without visitor moorings for longer than a day being pushed to the outskirts of the towns. I wonder if this is what CRT actually wants to happen as this will result in more wealthy people having a vested interest in the canals being maintained and funded, with pretty boats going past, and they pay the taxes that fund CRT......... I see you know what I'm talking about, it is more prevalent in London, but it is happening all over the country. Crt are selling lots off waterside land off to developers. Unfortunately they don't insist on provision for boaters being part of the developments, which they could do. Boaters don't play a big part in crt's plans. It's a shame because there is enough room for all of us. Boat liscenced still contribute more than the government to crt's funds. Let's hope it's not enevitable, although I fear you are right.
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Post by kris on Jul 12, 2017 12:29:56 GMT
I see the gimp is out of his box again. Have you anything worthwhile to contribute? I see you know what you are, a gimp. Now get back on the stool.
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Post by tomsk on Jul 12, 2017 12:41:15 GMT
Have you anything worthwhile to contribute? I see you know what you are, a gimp. Now get back on the stool. That will be a 'no' then.
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