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Post by kris on Jul 26, 2017 15:02:53 GMT
I understand your general pessimism as regards the general public. But you have to remember I was employed by crt to stand on the towpaths and talk to people, so I am aware of how much interest there is in the waterways. There has been a drastic increase in usage by groups other than boaters and some of them have a genuine interest in the survival of the waterways. Okay it's always going to be a relatively small percentage of the overall population. But never the less if cyclists and runners and other "friends" start to question crt on their activities then the elected representatives might take notice. For all the good it will do I'm starting with list of people on the committee for transfer of functions. The most depressing thing about my cynicism is that it's never as cynical as reality. In Leigh's case, do these runners and cyclists care what happens to some mouthy establishment fighter who'd clearly fight any establishment/authority just for the hell of it? Reading the judgement he clearly thinks if he avoids looking at paperwork it means it doesn't count. A lot of people would probably think he's a deluded nutter. Do they care if a bloke who doesn't pay his mooring fees gets his lightship nicked? I doubt it. Whether either was technically in the right while the shit was hitting the fan to the man in the street is irrelevant. There's a lot of public feeling against people wriggling out of stuff on technicalities and that in the round is how both cases would be seen. Sorry, I'm just trying to inject some realism. Personally I have sympathy with both but then I've got a boat, seen the video, read the court transcripts, read thousands of posts, have respect for authority fighters... Before I decided to buy a boat I had zero interest in canals. Now I happily though technically illegally live on one on a leisure mooring I'm obviously interested, but inclined to keep my head down. I'm baffled as to where and useful size of support will come from. Even if every boat headed down to clog London and make a show of protest they'd be seen by news item makers and viewers as enjoying a day out and having a little moan as an excuse for it. Other opinions on human nature are available but I've been here before with peace convoy, squatting, illegal raves... It's always ensured that the people making the headlines are difficult for the average law abiding man on the street to sympathise with. Leigh and the lightship owner have been picked on for that reason among others. The establishment knows it's a game and knows how to win, they hold all the aces. Sorry it takes me a while to read and digest long posts. Let alone compose replies. I think there are a few people on here who have experience of the cultural phenomena that you write about. But if the alternative is to do nothing then count me out. I'm not moving off the water, I intend to stay so if that means yet another fight then so be it.
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Post by kris on Jul 26, 2017 15:04:26 GMT
I know last year, I and many hundreds of other members, protested to the RSPB about an issue relating to them selling land which had been donated in a will. The fear that they may unexpectedly lose a traunch of funds from disaffected members certainly galvanised them into action. My hope (dream?) would be that one day Friends would wield similar clout. Rog I hope your right Rog, but having worked for crt I have seen a different side.
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Post by lollygagger on Jul 26, 2017 15:10:17 GMT
The most depressing thing about my cynicism is that it's never as cynical as reality. In Leigh's case, do these runners and cyclists care what happens to some mouthy establishment fighter who'd clearly fight any establishment/authority just for the hell of it? Reading the judgement he clearly thinks if he avoids looking at paperwork it means it doesn't count. A lot of people would probably think he's a deluded nutter. Do they care if a bloke who doesn't pay his mooring fees gets his lightship nicked? I doubt it. Whether either was technically in the right while the shit was hitting the fan to the man in the street is irrelevant. There's a lot of public feeling against people wriggling out of stuff on technicalities and that in the round is how both cases would be seen. Sorry, I'm just trying to inject some realism. Personally I have sympathy with both but then I've got a boat, seen the video, read the court transcripts, read thousands of posts, have respect for authority fighters... Before I decided to buy a boat I had zero interest in canals. Now I happily though technically illegally live on one on a leisure mooring I'm obviously interested, but inclined to keep my head down. I'm baffled as to where and useful size of support will come from. Even if every boat headed down to clog London and make a show of protest they'd be seen by news item makers and viewers as enjoying a day out and having a little moan as an excuse for it. Other opinions on human nature are available but I've been here before with peace convoy, squatting, illegal raves... It's always ensured that the people making the headlines are difficult for the average law abiding man on the street to sympathise with. Leigh and the lightship owner have been picked on for that reason among others. The establishment knows it's a game and knows how to win, they hold all the aces. Sorry it takes me a while to read and digest long posts. Let alone compose replies. I think there are a few people on here who have experience of the cultural phenomena that you write about. But if the alternative is to do nothing then count me out. I'm not moving off the water, I intend to stay so if that means yet another fight then so be it. And you are right to do so. I'm more trying to highlight the need for a cool head, politeness and cunning. To win the game, being in the right is not enough. It barely counts in fact. Using the courts can be an own goal even if you win because the glancing public see court and think bad person. PR is all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 15:12:25 GMT
kris
Why do you think that CRT are trying to prevent people living on boats? People were saying this when I first moved onto the cut in 1995 but since then -more- people are living on boats in a variety of different circumstances.
I don't quite see why you are so concerned about it all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 15:23:33 GMT
I know last year, I and many hundreds of other members, protested to the RSPB about an issue relating to them selling land which had been donated in a will. The fear that they may unexpectedly lose a traunch of funds from disaffected members certainly galvanised them into action. My hope (dream?) would be that one day Friends would wield similar clout. Rog The RSPB and the NT are very currently very different organisations from CRT/CRT Friends model. I can't see the CRT Friends numbers getting anywhere near the 'membership' (a very important distinction) required to make a difference - at least until canals start being closed.
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Post by kris on Jul 26, 2017 15:49:42 GMT
kris Why do you think that CRT are trying to prevent people living on boats? People were saying this when I first moved onto the cut in 1995 but since then -more- people are living on boats in a variety of different circumstances. I don't quite see why you are so concerned about it all. It's not about people living on boats or not, the real estate is getting sold off so what's going to be left after they have finished? I imagine you would like your daughters to be able to enjoy the life style you so obviously have enjoyed?
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Post by kris on Jul 26, 2017 15:53:46 GMT
I know last year, I and many hundreds of other members, protested to the RSPB about an issue relating to them selling land which had been donated in a will. The fear that they may unexpectedly lose a traunch of funds from disaffected members certainly galvanised them into action. My hope (dream?) would be that one day Friends would wield similar clout. Rog The RSPB and the NT are very currently very different organisations from CRT/CRT Friends model. I can't see the CRT Friends numbers getting anywhere near the 'membership' (a very important distinction) required to make a difference - at least until canals start being closed. They very deliberately didn't make it a "membership" hence the term "friends" they might not point out the distinction when they are talking to you on the towpath though.
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Post by lollygagger on Jul 26, 2017 15:53:51 GMT
Was this sum total of real estate making a profit when CRT took over?
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Post by kris on Jul 26, 2017 15:56:59 GMT
Was this sum total of real estate making a profit when CRT took over? I don't know you will have to do your own research, I'm currently trawling the parliment site for any lords that have been involved in waterways legislation.
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Post by lollygagger on Jul 26, 2017 16:05:12 GMT
Was this sum total of real estate making a profit when CRT took over? I don't know you will have to do your own research, I'm currently trawling the parliment site for any lords that have been involved in waterways legislation. It was an open question, someone may know.
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Post by kris on Jul 26, 2017 16:06:32 GMT
Sorry I thought it was directed at me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 16:14:17 GMT
kris Why do you think that CRT are trying to prevent people living on boats? People were saying this when I first moved onto the cut in 1995 but since then -more- people are living on boats in a variety of different circumstances. I don't quite see why you are so concerned about it all. It's not about people living on boats or not, the real estate is getting sold off so what's going to be left after they have finished? I imagine you would like your daughters to be able to enjoy the life style you so obviously have enjoyed? Sorry you said "I'm not moving off the water" so I read this as a concern for the future of living on boats. If you mean the system itself is in real danger then yes perhaps it is and some canals will be lost as has happened previously. I personally think the main system has a pretty healthy future. I'd not especially want my daughters to live on ditches unless they particularly wanted to. Yes it would be nice if there is still a canal network for them to enjoy if they wish.
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Post by Jim on Jul 26, 2017 18:29:22 GMT
Re members, cart was set up as a charity with only a small number of "members", not many more than the board of trustees, to oversee the (mis) management. It would have been unthinkable to open the membership to boaters users etc, we would then have had power to approve the board, who appoint the management. I was going to comment on mailing MPs, but one has already replied, they only deal with their own constituents.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jul 26, 2017 20:36:11 GMT
1. Good post lollygagger! 2. All UK MPs are filthy, lying, opportunistic scum. But the working classes are too thick mentally, and too physically fat to be bothered about anything. Apart from what's on TV. English towns seem to consist primarily of charity shops (50%), a Wetherspoons, a betting shop, and a Tesco's. Decay and Depression.
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Post by lollygagger on Jul 26, 2017 21:11:20 GMT
The decay of town centres is due to people with bank accounts cars and good credit increasingly shopping out of town and on the internet while the town is left with the cash economy, small cheap sales. The poorer somewhere is the more pound shops and betting shops. It's the better off that have shaped town centres, by increasingly avoiding them.
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