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Post by JohnV on Aug 5, 2017 9:02:49 GMT
Thanks for that. I've just had a look, forgive me for being a numpty, but I assume the heater plugs are the 2 things that look like mini spark plugs, with a single wire feed to one, then thick folded wire (busbar?) to the other one? So, it's disconnect the power supply and folded wire then measure the resistance between the positive terminal of each heater plug and the body of each heater plug, is that right? Shouldn't need to use glow plugs to start a diesel engine at this time of year, even my ancient BMC gets a few months respite from them in the Summer. Some do ..... some don't ....... Had a transit with a York in it, that refused to start even in tropical temperatures if you didn't use the glow plugs.
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Post by thebfg on Aug 5, 2017 9:04:03 GMT
Oh joy of joys, what a pleasent new member. Someone who has joined just to attack people. Oh well looks like it's a new member of gimp and the gimpetts. As usual,you've missed the point and the irony entirely. I took exception to your reply to Mr stabbysociopathsouthernstar Not so new afterall. Or another cwdf member coming to join the Flock.
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Post by Jim on Aug 5, 2017 9:14:29 GMT
Would a smear of copperslip or similar on the heater plug threads help stop them seizing up?
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 5, 2017 9:50:58 GMT
I have to admit I don't know too much about my engine! I do know that it has a mechanical fuel pump, not an electric one.
Started it again this morning. I tried holding the key in the 'heat' position for longer than usual. Maybe 12 seconds rather than the usual 5 or so. While the engine didn't start perfectly, it did stutter a little and there was some black smoke, it started without having to give it full throttle. I'm wondering whether perhaps just one heater plug has gone, heating the working one for longer than usual is compensating for the one that doesn't work?
Anyway I'm going to Middlewich this afternoon, there's a vetus dealer there. I'll do the suggested electrical tests, can get new plugs if they are faulty. 37 quid each though, ouch!
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Post by peterboat on Aug 5, 2017 10:31:52 GMT
I have to admit I don't know too much about my engine! I do know that it has a mechanical fuel pump, not an electric one. Started it again this morning. I tried holding the key in the 'heat' position for longer than usual. Maybe 12 seconds rather than the usual 5 or so. While the engine didn't start perfectly, it did stutter a little and there was some black smoke, it started without having to give it full throttle. I'm wondering whether perhaps just one heater plug has gone, heating the working one for longer than usual is compensating for the one that doesn't work? Anyway I'm going to Middlewich this afternoon, there's a vetus dealer there. I'll do the suggested electrical tests, can get new plugs if they are faulty. 37 quid each though, ouch! Have a look on the tinternet first I bought 4 for the BMC for just over 12 quid or I could have paid a fortune for 4 from some of the dealers
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 5, 2017 10:52:09 GMT
I have to admit I don't know too much about my engine! I do know that it has a mechanical fuel pump, not an electric one. Started it again this morning. I tried holding the key in the 'heat' position for longer than usual. Maybe 12 seconds rather than the usual 5 or so. While the engine didn't start perfectly, it did stutter a little and there was some black smoke, it started without having to give it full throttle. I'm wondering whether perhaps just one heater plug has gone, heating the working one for longer than usual is compensating for the one that doesn't work? Anyway I'm going to Middlewich this afternoon, there's a vetus dealer there. I'll do the suggested electrical tests, can get new plugs if they are faulty. 37 quid each though, ouch! Have a look on the tinternet first I bought 4 for the BMC for just over 12 quid or I could have paid a fortune for 4 from some of the dealers Any tips on this? If I input the Vetus part number it only comes up with the Vetus plugs. I know that Vetus engines are based on Mitsubishi units but don't know which one, stuggling to think how I could cross reference the part.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 5, 2017 12:25:16 GMT
Thanks for that. I've just had a look, forgive me for being a numpty, but I assume the heater plugs are the 2 things that look like mini spark plugs, with a single wire feed to one, then thick folded wire (busbar?) to the other one? So, it's disconnect the power supply and folded wire then measure the resistance between the positive terminal of each heater plug and the body of each heater plug, is that right? Shouldn't need to use glow plugs to start a diesel engine at this time of year, even my ancient BMC gets a few months respite from them in the Summer. Why not? 200 Centigrade is better than 17°. I always use our plug unless the engine has been running in the past 10 hours. I touch it with my finger to make sure it's Ouch!-hot.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 5, 2017 12:34:49 GMT
This is not heater plugs. It could be to do with the fuel governor, fuel pump or injectors. Also perhaps the starter battery isn't giving enough kick?
Moegreen = nutter? In the style of tomsk. Quite funny. Better than Jimmy Tarbuck and his show Winner Takes Fuck All.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 5, 2017 12:47:04 GMT
And why are you starting 'on throttle'? I've been told that diesel engine fuel governors automatically set the fuel allowance to 'fully open' when the engine stops, for the next start.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 5, 2017 14:24:45 GMT
And why are you starting 'on throttle'? I've been told that diesel engine fuel governors automatically set the fuel allowance to 'fully open' when the engine stops, for the next start. Not on mine, governor! My tick over is too low (another job to do, one day). If I try to start it without any throttle it would probably start but it would shake itself stupidly, probably wrecking the engine mounts over time. Incidentally, when I last started the engine (it was cold) it started as normal, no problems at all. I'm wondering if it might have been a bit of dirt that got through in the fuel, has cleared itself. I'll still do the checks on the heater plugs though.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Aug 5, 2017 15:11:53 GMT
And why are you starting 'on throttle'? I've been told that diesel engine fuel governors automatically set the fuel allowance to 'fully open' when the engine stops, for the next start. My BL owner's manual says full throttle to start, although 3/4 is normally what I use.
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Post by tonyb on Aug 5, 2017 18:43:16 GMT
And why are you starting 'on throttle'? I've been told that diesel engine fuel governors automatically set the fuel allowance to 'fully open' when the engine stops, for the next start. Basically correct although in general older ones had a mechanical devoice to allow the control rod to go to the excess fuel position for cold starting. However control rods can get stiff or stick for a variety of reasons so rather than rely on a comparative weak spring force to put the rack to full or excess fuel its is more positive if you pre-load the spring with the throttle. The trick is to close the throttle somewhat PDQ as it starts. Note - rotary pumps like the BMC DPAs etc do not have control rods.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 5, 2017 20:11:37 GMT
Perhaps T W Marine who told us this were referring specifically to Bukhs? I know my Volvo B10 starts with no extra throttle.
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Post by tonyb on Aug 6, 2017 6:47:31 GMT
Perhaps T W Marine who told us this were referring specifically to Bukhs? I know my Volvo B10 starts with no extra throttle. The DV36 & 4? uses a rotary pump but I find a little throttle always helps it pick up as it fires. All the smaller ones I have seen use conventional pumps so the control rod might get a bit stiff. As I said, your statement was true in general but there can be exceptions. For instance the BMC 1.5 pump has a hydraulic governor that balances its metering valve between fuel pressure and a very light spring (exceptionally light when compared with the equivalent on say a Lister). A single glob of water in the fuel can jamb this valve, that's how light the assembly is so on a cold morning it would not surprise me if the fuel viscosity alone was thick enough to hold the valve in the slow speed or stop position so opening the throttle just helps force the valve open. Back to the OP. The 2 pot training Vetus had been fitted with an electric lift pump instead of the mechanical one but it was also a poor cold starter needing higher revs when cold to stop it shaking itself about and stalling. I never found out why and suspect something odd in the governor or injector pump. I have ha done of the "disk" type mechanical lift pumps like the one our Vetus had with gunge in the valves . They are strippable (6 screws0 but it is VITAL that you mark all three parts so it all goes back the right way round. I also had one on a Beta where worn sels had allowed oil to build up behind the diaphragm and probably severely limit its pumping ability.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 6, 2017 7:49:11 GMT
Perhaps T W Marine who told us this were referring specifically to Bukhs? I know my Volvo B10 starts with no extra throttle. snip Back to the OP. The 2 pot training Vetus had been fitted with an electric lift pump instead of the mechanical one but it was also a poor cold starter needing higher revs when cold to stop it shaking itself about and stalling. I never found out why and suspect something odd in the governor or injector pump. I have ha done of the "disk" type mechanical lift pumps like the one our Vetus had with gunge in the valves . They are strippable (6 screws0 but it is VITAL that you mark all three parts so it all goes back the right way round. I also had one on a Beta where worn sels had allowed oil to build up behind the diaphragm and probably severely limit its pumping ability. I will store that useful bit of info away in my memory (probably like a lot of things somewhere so safe I can't find it again) My little two pot vetus in Shapfell is fairly low hours yet (sub 1500 hrs) and still starts at tickover easily and smoothly but that is well worth knowing ...... thanks
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