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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 11, 2017 17:01:45 GMT
This may well be linked to the last thread on this section. I broke down at King's Lock, Middlewich. I was ticking over going up the lock, pushed the throttle forward to leave the lock, the engine died. Attempts to start the engine failed, seems fuel isn't getting through. The first thing I checked gave me a clue as to what was wrong. When I undid the bleed screw on top of the fuel filter housing no fuel came through.
Checked the fuel level in the tank, maybe 35 to 40% full.
Put 20 litres in from Kings Lock Chandelry, tank now around half full.
Next I removed the fuel line between the fuel tap and fuel filter. Took a piece of tubing, connected it to the fuel tap and blew through it. No obvious obstruction, I could hear the diesel bubbling in the tank. Tried carefully sucking on the pipe, clean diesel came through.
Now the strange bit. When I removed the tubing no fuel came through the tap. Tried sucking again and this time lowered my end of the tubing. Fuel flowed nicely. As I raised the tubing the flow of diesel slowed, at the level of the fuel filter intake, it wasn'tmuch more than a trickle.
The obvious next thing to do is put more diesel in, I'll be doing that in the morning. Then I'll have the unenviable task of bleeding the system. I've already taken off the second fuel filter ready to fill it with diesel in the morning. My engine has a mechanical pump, the little priming lever on the side of it appears useless.
Anyway, my burning question: why is half a tank of diesel insufficient? I've run it lower than that in the past, without problems...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 17:18:39 GMT
The lift pump priming lever only works in Certain positions as it is cam driven.
Is the fuel pickup from the top with a tube inside the tank?
The blockage sounds like a bit of fluff which lifts off the fuel tap if you blow it but flows back to the tap and blocks it when you stop blowing. If there was a pickup pipe inside the tank itself then it might be quite awkward to clear a blockage like that.
Typo edit
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Post by Mr Stabby on Aug 11, 2017 17:23:47 GMT
You are looking in completely the wrong place. There is something wrapped around your propeller.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 17:50:06 GMT
You are looking in completely the wrong place. There is something wrapped around your propeller. How would shit round the prop stop an engine from starting in neutral? You would be onto something if it died when put into gear. |
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 11, 2017 17:54:12 GMT
It did die when I put it in gear, but then wouldn't start in neutral.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 18:02:19 GMT
It did die when I put it in gear, but then wouldn't start in neutral. That's the point, if it doesn't start in neutral anything round the prop is not causing your starting problems. |
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Post by Mr Stabby on Aug 11, 2017 18:03:45 GMT
It did die when I put it in gear, but then wouldn't start in neutral. I'd pop up and have a look if I could but I'm working all over the weekend. But a couple of questions. Does the Morse control lever feel stiff, or otherwise any different to usual? Have you tried starting it in reverse gear? |
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Post by Mr Stabby on Aug 11, 2017 18:30:52 GMT
It did die when I put it in gear, but then wouldn't start in neutral. That's the point, if it doesn't start in neutral anything round the prop is not causing your starting problems. But Ricco said the engine died when he put the boat into gear which means that the problem is related to the transmission rather than the fuel system. |
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Post by thebfg on Aug 11, 2017 18:39:50 GMT
That's the point, if it doesn't start in neutral anything round the prop is not causing your starting problems. But Ricco said the engine died when he put the boat into gear which means that the problem is related to the transmission rather than the fuel system. Or began when the engine was put under load. seems no fuel was coming through is a sign. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 18:43:39 GMT
I've got a bad habit of looking for the criptic solution to any problem. I'ts definitely worth checking the prop and making sure it's free of any crap as that may have been the initial cause of the problem.
Subsequent checks of the fuel line etc may have resulted in air getting into the fuel line. Also, is your neutral really neutral? What I mean is, when you push the control forward to get more fuel in on starting, is the prop really not engaged? My experience of Morse systems has not been good, especially when the cables get slack...
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Post by Mr Stabby on Aug 11, 2017 18:57:31 GMT
Just a random guess Ricco,do you have a Hurth gearbox?
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 11, 2017 19:39:04 GMT
It is a Hurth gearbox, the prop is clear. Neutral does work as it should. Thing is, if no fuel is coming through the primary filter, that points towards the problem being fuel starvation. I'm hoping that 40 litres in the tank in the morning will get it flowing properly, then I can have a go at starting it again.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Aug 11, 2017 20:24:27 GMT
This may well be linked to the last thread on this section. I broke down at King's Lock, Middlewich. I was ticking over going up the lock, pushed the throttle forward to leave the lock, the engine died. Attempts to start the engine failed, seems fuel isn't getting through. The first thing I checked gave me a clue as to what was wrong. When I undid the bleed screw on top of the fuel filter housing no fuel came through. Checked the fuel level in the tank, maybe 35 to 40% full. Put 20 litres in from Kings Lock Chandelry, tank now around half full. Next I removed the fuel line between the fuel tap and fuel filter. Took a piece of tubing, connected it to the fuel tap and blew through it. No obvious obstruction, I could hear the diesel bubbling in the tank. Tried carefully sucking on the pipe, clean diesel came through. Now the strange bit. When I removed the tubing no fuel came through the tap. Tried sucking again and this time lowered my end of the tubing. Fuel flowed nicely. As I raised the tubing the flow of diesel slowed, at the level of the fuel filter intake, it wasn'tmuch more than a trickle. The obvious next thing to do is put more diesel in, I'll be doing that in the morning. Then I'll have the unenviable task of bleeding the system. I've already taken off the second fuel filter ready to fill it with diesel in the morning. My engine has a mechanical pump, the little priming lever on the side of it appears useless. Anyway, my burning question: why is half a tank of diesel insufficient? I've run it lower than that in the past, without problems... It was either an aeration or fuel starvation problem that you had when you posted about 'starting difficulties' a week ago, and now you've just got a different manifestation of the same problem. * Is the fuel drawn through a dip tube into the top of the tank or from an outlet and cock near the bottom of it ? * Where is the second(ary) filter situated - tank side or engine side of the lift pump ? * Have you checked the primary filter bowl for muck and/or water, and what level is that filter at relative to the bottom of the tank ? |
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 11, 2017 20:43:14 GMT
This may well be linked to the last thread on this section. I broke down at King's Lock, Middlewich. I was ticking over going up the lock, pushed the throttle forward to leave the lock, the engine died. Attempts to start the engine failed, seems fuel isn't getting through. The first thing I checked gave me a clue as to what was wrong. When I undid the bleed screw on top of the fuel filter housing no fuel came through. Checked the fuel level in the tank, maybe 35 to 40% full. Put 20 litres in from Kings Lock Chandelry, tank now around half full. Next I removed the fuel line between the fuel tap and fuel filter. Took a piece of tubing, connected it to the fuel tap and blew through it. No obvious obstruction, I could hear the diesel bubbling in the tank. Tried carefully sucking on the pipe, clean diesel came through. Now the strange bit. When I removed the tubing no fuel came through the tap. Tried sucking again and this time lowered my end of the tubing. Fuel flowed nicely. As I raised the tubing the flow of diesel slowed, at the level of the fuel filter intake, it wasn'tmuch more than a trickle. The obvious next thing to do is put more diesel in, I'll be doing that in the morning. Then I'll have the unenviable task of bleeding the system. I've already taken off the second fuel filter ready to fill it with diesel in the morning. My engine has a mechanical pump, the little priming lever on the side of it appears useless. Anyway, my burning question: why is half a tank of diesel insufficient? I've run it lower than that in the past, without problems... It was either an aeration or fuel starvation problem that you had when you posted about 'starting difficulties' a week ago, and now you've just got a different manifestation of the same problem. * Is the fuel drawn through a dip tube into the top of the tank or from an outlet and cock near the bottom of it ? * Where is the second(ary) filter situated - tank side or engine side of the lift pump ? * Have you checked the primary filter bowl for muck and/or water, and what level is that filter at relative to the bottom of the tank ? First question, I'm not exactly sure, but the fuel tap is right near the top of the tank so I guess the former? The second filter is fitted very close to the lift pump, closer to the tank than the pump is. I took the opportunity to change the first fuel filter. There was some diesel in it when I removed it, it seemed clean. The fuel filter is I'd guess, fitted about half way up the tank. It seems to me, as a novice in these matters, that fuel flows when the level in the tank is above the level of the fuel filter body intake, but not when the fuel level is below this. |
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Post by TonyDunkley on Aug 11, 2017 21:10:47 GMT
It was either an aeration or fuel starvation problem that you had when you posted about 'starting difficulties' a week ago, and now you've just got a different manifestation of the same problem. * Is the fuel drawn through a dip tube into the top of the tank or from an outlet and cock near the bottom of it ? * Where is the second(ary) filter situated - tank side or engine side of the lift pump ? * Have you checked the primary filter bowl for muck and/or water, and what level is that filter at relative to the bottom of the tank ? First question, I'm not exactly sure, but the fuel tap is right near the top of the tank so I guess the former? The second filter is fitted very close to the lift pump, closer to the tank than the pump is. I took the opportunity to change the first fuel filter. There was some diesel in it when I removed it, it seemed clean. The fuel filter is I'd guess, fitted about half way up the tank. It seems to me, as a novice in these matters, that fuel flows when the level in the tank is above the level of the fuel filter body intake, but not when the fuel level is below this. If I had to take a shot at identifying the source of the problem based on the info. we've got so far, I would go for lift pump failure. If both primary and secondary filters are on the tank side of lift pump, then it's unlikely to be muck in the lift pump blocking either an internal filter gauze or the two one-way valves, and most likely to be a perforated or split lift pump diaphragm. On the other hand, it could be something as simple - and difficult to track down - as a dead spider or similar lump of muck floating about in the tank and intermittently blocking the end of the suction/dip tube. Can you post up any photo's of the fuel system from tank to injection pump ? |
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