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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 21:32:11 GMT
It is a Hurth gearbox, the prop is clear. Neutral does work as it should. Thing is, if no fuel is coming through the primary filter, that points towards the problem being fuel starvation. I'm hoping that 40 litres in the tank in the morning will get it flowing properly, then I can have a go at starting it again. Have you got a little gauze fuel filter near the lift pump? Maybe that's blocked. Either way, it sounds like either a blockage, or air is getting in somewhere (as has been suggested). I remember chasing a problem like this on a Mk1 Fiesta. I eventually found a tiny pin prick hole in a short length of fuel line. Once changed, all was well.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 11, 2017 22:10:11 GMT
First question, I'm not exactly sure, but the fuel tap is right near the top of the tank so I guess the former? The second filter is fitted very close to the lift pump, closer to the tank than the pump is. I took the opportunity to change the first fuel filter. There was some diesel in it when I removed it, it seemed clean. The fuel filter is I'd guess, fitted about half way up the tank. It seems to me, as a novice in these matters, that fuel flows when the level in the tank is above the level of the fuel filter body intake, but not when the fuel level is below this. If I had to take a shot at identifying the source of the problem based on the info. we've got so far, I would go for lift pump failure. If both primary and secondary filters are on the tank side of lift pump, then it's unlikely to be muck in the lift pump blocking either an internal filter gauze or the two one-way valves, and most likely to be a perforated or split lift pump diaphragm. On the other hand, it could be something as simple - and difficult to track down - as a dead spider or similar lump of muck floating about in the tank and intermittently blocking the end of the suction/dip tube. Can you post up any photo's of the fuel system from tank to injection pump ? Thanks. I'm a dinosaur when it comes to technology. I used to have a camera but it doesn't work now, my phone is useless for photos. Trying to understand the workings of a fuel pump is a bit beyond me. I guess I may have to pay the bloke from Kings Lock to have a look. What I don't understand though is why fuel isn't flowing to the fuel filter, with the tank being half full. Previously, during previous filter changes, I always opened the bleed screw on the filter housing, a few seconds later fuel would flow out of it. There was no fuel pump involved, gravity was enough. Now gravity isn't doing it, is this just a coincidence?
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Post by TonyDunkley on Aug 11, 2017 23:23:58 GMT
If I had to take a shot at identifying the source of the problem based on the info. we've got so far, I would go for lift pump failure. If both primary and secondary filters are on the tank side of lift pump, then it's unlikely to be muck in the lift pump blocking either an internal filter gauze or the two one-way valves, and most likely to be a perforated or split lift pump diaphragm. On the other hand, it could be something as simple - and difficult to track down - as a dead spider or similar lump of muck floating about in the tank and intermittently blocking the end of the suction/dip tube. Can you post up any photo's of the fuel system from tank to injection pump ? Thanks. I'm a dinosaur when it comes to technology. I used to have a camera but it doesn't work now, my phone is useless for photos. Trying to understand the workings of a fuel pump is a bit beyond me. I guess I may have to pay the bloke from Kings Lock to have a look. What I don't understand though is why fuel isn't flowing to the fuel filter, with the tank being half full. Previously, during previous filter changes, I always opened the bleed screw on the filter housing, a few seconds later fuel would flow out of it. There was no fuel pump involved, gravity was enough. Now gravity isn't doing it, is this just a coincidence? If the fuel supply is via a dip tube into the top of the tank, and the fuel level in the tank was well above the filter, then it might have been siphoning out to the filter when you were bleeding the system after filter changes. Re-establishing the siphon after the pipework has been emptied/drained is more difficult if the fuel level isn't well above the delivery end of the pipe, or the point where the pipework/filter body is opened. Give me a call on 07553 294325 in the morning, and I'll talk you through a few checks which will track down and identify the problem.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 12, 2017 5:54:05 GMT
Thanks Tony, I'll do that. I'll put some more diesel in first thing, so at least, hopefully, I'll get the fuel flowing, at the very least. The better news is that if it is the pump, the gold plated Vetus price is 135 quid, better than the electric one at over 300 quid.
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Post by tonyb on Aug 12, 2017 6:35:27 GMT
Or a generic electric one from a motor factors at far less than either.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 12, 2017 11:30:45 GMT
Update on this: Big thanks to Tony Dunkley. I phoned him several times this morning, he talked me through several things. Unfortunately, couldn't get it started. Went to King's Lock Vetus guys they came out and had a look. Confirmed that there was no air in the system and that the glow plugs were working. Couldn't get it started, even with easy start. He reckons there's mechanical damage, could be a sticking valve, or something else. Either way it's serious, looks like I'll face a huge bill. That's boats I suppose!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 12:26:11 GMT
Commiserations.
It's always when everything seems to be going so well that life has a habit of kicking you in the loose change.
Hope you're up and running again very soon, and without having to spend too much.
Rog
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Post by nipper on Aug 12, 2017 15:43:31 GMT
I had a similer problem a few years ago on my sailing boat. The engine would stop every now and then, refuse to restart. I found that if I waited a few hours, the engine started again.
I asked the boat yard to have a look at the problem and within two hours had a call to say the problem has been cured.
Apparently a flake of rust had entered the rising pipe and got itself stuck, but not stuck enough to not let fuel by, and not stuck enough so that it couldnt move and block the pipe completely.
On resting the flake would come swivel back down to its original position. So, in other words the flake was acting like a valve!
Can I suggest blowing through the pipework to see if there is improvement!
Nipper
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 15:49:30 GMT
Is the tank breather clear?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 16:01:07 GMT
Update on this: Big thanks to Tony Dunkley. I phoned him several times this morning, he talked me through several things. Unfortunately, couldn't get it started. Went to King's Lock Vetus guys they came out and had a look. Confirmed that there was no air in the system and that the glow plugs were working. Couldn't get it started, even with easy start. He reckons there's mechanical damage, could be a sticking valve, or something else. Either way it's serious, looks like I'll face a huge bill. That's boats I suppose! The plungers on the inline pump do stick, I'm still leaning towards fuel issues. Next up is a compression test before you condem the engine.
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 12, 2017 17:09:24 GMT
I wouldn't listen to the first advice given by a boatyard. Second, third and fourth opinions needed. Contact the makers of the engine. Look at forums devoted to this type of engine. Your're not far from T W Marine - they may be able to help - give them a ring. They're nice guys and won't con you. Even if your engine needs to be ripped to pieces, these are the chaps I would ask to do it. ps - tell your tenants that 'due to unforeseen circumstances' you will be increasing their rents
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Post by Clinton Cool on Aug 12, 2017 19:28:46 GMT
Thanks to more help from Tony Dunkley of this parish I'm closer to knowing what's wrong. A fuel issue has been ruled out. It was bled half to death, clean diesel was spouting from the injectors. The boatyard tried the dreaded easy start, it wouldn't start with that.
Had the rocker cover off. The valves definitely need adjusting but the rockers appeared to be working as they should. That's a relief. When I turned the engine over fumes came from one area, think they are called push rods? This shouldn't happen I'm told, it means that the head gasket has gone, at best. We won't know if the head is either cracked or needs skimming until it's taken off, next week sometime.
This could still be a very big and expensive job but I'm relieved in a way, at least I know a little more now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 19:42:20 GMT
Thanks to more help from Tony Dunkley of this parish I'm closer to knowing what's wrong. A fuel issue has been ruled out. It was bled half to death, clean diesel was spouting from the injectors. The boatyard tried the dreaded easy start, it wouldn't start with that. Had the rocker cover off. The valves definitely need adjusting but the rockers appeared to be working as they should. That's a relief. When I turned the engine over fumes came from one area, think they are called push rods? This shouldn't happen I'm told, it means that the head gasket has gone, at best. We won't know if the head is either cracked or needs skimming until it's taken off, next week sometime. This could still be a very big and expensive job but I'm relieved in a way, at least I know a little more now. Bummer, there goes my theory of a cheap fix! Still, we ruled the air filter and gearbox out 👍
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Post by naughtyfox on Aug 12, 2017 20:51:38 GMT
Keep going, it will be interesting to know what it actually is.
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Post by JohnV on Aug 13, 2017 3:09:55 GMT
Keep going, it will be interesting to know what it actually is. Hmmmmm!!! I don't think he has an option to "keep going" otherwise he ain't going to be "going anywhere" Good luck Ricco ....... hope it doesn't work out too pricey !!!
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