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Post by Clinton Cool on May 23, 2016 18:26:18 GMT
I've painted the back of my boat, gunwale height, away from where it gets scraped, in white. I've noticed that many boats have this scheme and that the white, or often cream colour, where it joins the black paint, isn't a straight line. It tends to be a semi circular joint between the paints or perhaps a half moon is a better description. No way could I get a decent looking joint like this by doing it freehand, I'm going to need some kind of masking system. I'm struggling to think of a way to be honest.
Anyone know how the pros do this or otherwise, a good way of doing it?
Cheers
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 18:39:12 GMT
I use that Green Duck masking tape out of B&Q,it comes in various sizes.I just piece it into that elliptical shape using small pieces and a razor blade.I let the paint dry pull off the masking paper and with a thin brush touch in the black if my tunnel band edge isn't fine enough. I was talking to a painter on here yesterday,I shall look back over my posts and find his name. Higgs is worth asking,he used to post on painting matters on CWDF a while back.
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Post by peterboat on May 23, 2016 22:55:02 GMT
Dinner or tea plate as a template easy really
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Post by PaulG2 on May 24, 2016 4:14:57 GMT
Rather than trying to tape around a curve, what you want to do is apply wide tape flat, vertically, over the entire area of your stripe end, then use a plate for a template like Peter said, and cut your pattern from the tape with an exacto knife or utility knife. Remove tape from area to be painted.
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Post by Clinton Cool on May 24, 2016 6:06:40 GMT
Thanks for the replies, I'll give it a go!
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Post by smileypete on May 24, 2016 13:03:19 GMT
Maybe try sticking and cutting the tape on a cutting mat, peel it off and stick it in place which may be easier than cutting in situ and possibly scoring the paint.
ISTR there's special narrow tape that can be made to take curves easily, hopefully Mr Higgs will chime in.
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Post by Higgs on May 28, 2016 9:00:44 GMT
Maybe try sticking and cutting the tape on a cutting mat, peel it off and stick it in place which may be easier than cutting in situ and possibly scoring the paint. ISTR there's special narrow tape that can be made to take curves easily, hopefully Mr Higgs will chime in.
For various diameter curves, collect the tops from plastic containers. Plastic tops seemed the most useful and flexible. Tape wise, a decent masking tape can be made to curve by keeping the finger on one edge, following the curve you want, allowing the other edge you don't need to do what it wants. This other edge can be flattened with creases, but the useful edge will or should stay put following the curve you want.
Vinyl tape is a possibility, it will bend easily. The paint may bleed under the edge as the glue on the glue side of the tape may be applied in its production as close set lines of adhesive and not a continuous. This is no big problem. Leave vinyl tape on until the paint you've applied is touch dry. The paint under the vinyl tape will not have cured and can be removed with a rag over the finger tip along with a touch of white spirit.
I usually used 3m's tape, but for such a small job, use whatever you can lay your hands on.
All tape has the ability to pull paint off, if it is stuck to paint that has been laid down on poorly prepped surfaces. Try to find tape that is medium tack.
Make sure your paint brush is not too flooded as you paint to the edge of the tape, and when it's applied, draw the paint away from the tape edge to reduce the chance of bleeding. If there is a chance that bleeding will occur, leave the tape on for a while and the paint underneath will not have cured as fast; it can be removed, as mentioned above.
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Post by PaulG2 on May 28, 2016 14:26:08 GMT
Maybe try sticking and cutting the tape on a cutting mat, peel it off and stick it in place which may be easier than cutting in situ and possibly scoring the paint. ISTR there's special narrow tape that can be made to take curves easily, hopefully Mr Higgs will chime in.
For various diameter curves, collect the tops from plastic containers. Plastic tops seemed the most useful and flexible. Tape wise, a decent masking tape can be made to curve by keeping the finger on one edge, following the curve you want, allowing the other edge you don't need to do what it wants. This other edge can be flattened with creases, but the useful edge will or should stay put following the curve you want.
Vinyl tape is a possibility, it will bend easily. The paint may bleed under the edge as the glue on the glue side of the tape may be applied in its production as close set lines of adhesive and not a continuous. This is no big problem. Leave vinyl tape on until the paint you've applied is touch dry. The paint under the vinyl tape will not have cured and can be removed with a rag over the finger tip along with a touch of white spirit.
I usually used 3m's tape, but for such a small job, use whatever you can lay your hands on.
All tape has the ability to pull paint off, if it is stuck to paint that has been laid down on poorly prepped surfaces. Try to find tape that is medium tack.
Make sure your paint brush is not too flooded as you paint to the edge of the tape, and when it's applied, draw the paint away from the tape edge to reduce the chance of bleeding. If there is a chance that bleeding will occur, leave the tape on for a while and the paint underneath will not have cured as fast; it can be removed, as mentioned above.
Well, you see that, Higgs, you are still useful, you old codger. You may not be up to date on the most modern paints, but considering that 80% - 90% of paint work is preparation, your experience and advice are still relevant and invaluable.
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Post by Higgs on May 29, 2016 1:32:16 GMT
Make sure your paint brush is not too flooded as you paint to the edge of the tape, and when it's applied, draw the paint away from the tape edge to reduce the chance of bleeding. If there is a chance that bleeding will occur, leave the tape on for a while and the paint underneath will not have cured as fast; it can be removed, as mentioned above.
Well, you see that, Higgs, you are still useful, you old codger. You may not be up to date on the most modern paints, but considering that 80% - 90% of paint work is preparation, your experience and advice are still relevant and invaluable.
Thanks, though I'm really glad I don't have to paint boats anymore.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 6:46:04 GMT
Well, you see that, Higgs, you are still useful, you old codger. You may not be up to date on the most modern paints, but considering that 80% - 90% of paint work is preparation, your experience and advice are still relevant and invaluable.
Thanks, though I'm really glad I don't have to paint boats anymore.
I have the gunnels to do in a few weeks.You have to try and plan it in order to get beside a low bit of Towpath as my boat sits so low in the water.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 29, 2016 7:27:38 GMT
As this is about painting, can I get this in? (although this too might be 'below the belt'!). Recently I read something about using a rust inhibitor on the hull before blacking. We intend to black our undersides this Summer - so, does it sound silly to first paint the whole hull with Red Oxide, before applying the blacking?
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Post by Higgs on May 29, 2016 9:06:24 GMT
As this is about painting, can I get this in? (although this too might be 'below the belt'!). Recently I read something about using a rust inhibitor on the hull before blacking. We intend to black our undersides this Summer - so, does it sound silly to first paint the whole hull with Red Oxide, before applying the blacking?
It isn't silly, it depends on how well the surface preparation is done to give the paint a good chance of holding on. Anything you put on after is going to rely on that first coat bonding sufficiently to the steel. It does sound like more than a week's job unless you're lucky enough to have baking weather to help cure all that painting in such a short time.
After that initial painting and curing time, your blacking should be applied in coats that are not too thick. If the build-up is too thick and quick, your blacking may not cure sufficiently. If your first coat is just a one part paint that can be mixed down with white spirits, it will be relying on the blacking to protect it. You will not be able to use Comastic type blacking products. These will not be compatable with a one part paint. Intertuft can be used, which also can be thinned with white spirits.
It might be a better idea to use a two pack paint to first coat your hull. I'd look around for paints that are designed to handle the underwater conditions. They aren't going to be cheap. It's horses for courses. The longer you wish to go between blacking, the better the specification of paint needs using. I can't advise on paint products specifically to use as an initial coating of the hull. It is underwater and your research would be as good as mine might be.
When paints like one part paints are applied in quick succession, there is a certain amount of bounding between coats, due to the next coat 'softening' the previous coat and bonding. Long dried-off and cured paint will be more in need of mechanical bonding through keying up.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 29, 2016 9:29:39 GMT
We have 4 days! 4 x 24 hours. Assuming we can even get to the dry dock with the canal system being so badly shattered everywhere it seems (up North, anyway). I want to go to the dock first to see what it's all about, and possibly have a 2kw fan heater in there also to help. I thought to use Rylard's blacking paint called Rytex - perhaps the hardest thing is estimating how much we need - but girlfriend is mathmatician, so no worries (err....!)
I don't know how blacking protects the steel of the hull, which is why, when I read it could be first protected by a rust inhibitor, I thought at first 'Fertan' (which I used on our back deck drain sides - and am still not convinced it's any good) (by the way, slapped red oxide on top of that Fertan layer just to make sure!) and then, as Fertan isn't cheap and we'd need lots and the drying time is long, I thought "red oxide"! I wonder if Rytex will stick to red oxide, as well as onto steel. We'll see, I guess! We'll be doing this horrible job ourselves and we are quick and thorough workers. We could have the 2kw fan heater blowing towards the surface and gradually moving it. We haven't seen the underside of our boat before, so it's all a bit scary!
Good to hear that applying red oxide first "isn't silly". I shall have to remember to take photos. There seems to be very little about blacking on the Internet, I certainly haven't found much of use.
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Post by Higgs on May 29, 2016 10:48:37 GMT
We have 4 days! 4 x 24 hours. Assuming we can even get to the dry dock with the canal system being so badly shattered everywhere it seems (up North, anyway). I want to go to the dock first to see what it's all about, and possibly have a 2kw fan heater in there also to help. I thought to use Rylard's blacking paint called Rytex - perhaps the hardest thing is estimating how much we need - but girlfriend is mathmatician, so no worries (err....!) I don't know how blacking protects the steel of the hull, which is why, when I read it could be first protected by a rust inhibitor, I thought at first 'Fertan' (which I used on our back deck drain sides - and am still not convinced it's any good) (by the way, slapped red oxide on top of that Fertan layer just to make sure!) and then, as Fertan isn't cheap and we'd need lots and the drying time is long, I thought "red oxide"! I wonder if Rytex will stick to red oxide, as well as onto steel. We'll see, I guess! We'll be doing this horrible job ourselves and we are quick and thorough workers. We could have the 2kw fan heater blowing towards the surface and gradually moving it. We haven't seen the underside of our boat before, so it's all a bit scary! Good to hear that applying red oxide first "isn't silly". I shall have to remember to take photos. There seems to be very little about blacking on the Internet, I certainly haven't found much of use.
Can't help with the Fertan, I've never trusted these treatments enough to risk it on a customers' boat. The painter that was employed after I left used Owatrol alot. I'm glad it was never a product I relied on, he didn't escape those Owatrol jobs without problems.
In the time you've got, I'd forget about anything other than the blacking. Blacking is just a barrier. It's relatively cheap, but needs regular renewal. It does become a bit crystalline after time and loses its scuff resistance.
After jet washing, scrape the vegitation off. With each occasion of blacking the surface can become more and more irregular with the build-up and lost patches of blacking that the jet wash might remove. You may get pitting, too. Scrape back to as near a flat surface as you can, removing some layer and reducing the depth of pitting. Pitting that has gone back to the steel will weep an orange colour. Pitting will trap water, and unless you've given the boat good time to dry, you will trap this water. It won't help. That is why I'd advise scraping back the bitumen to eliminate these pitted areas and then making sure the boat is dry.
Rytex is a reasonably priced blacking. Blacking will stick to most things, but water. With such a short time available, you may be tempted to slap on thick coats of blacking. There is a risk it won't cure properly before the boat goes back in the water. You'll know when that has happened, you'll have a slick following you.
You'll need a brush to get the blacking into the corners and up into the rubbing strakes. Use the brush to work the blacking into difficult areas. For the rest, use a fluffy roller, these will hold a good amount of black. Emulsion rollers, I think. Keep the brush and roller in a bucket of water when they're not being used. Before you use them for the next coat of blacking, get the water out of the roller and brush. Roll the roller against some surface to remove the water. A crap piece of ply or, other people may have rolled the water out on the side of the dry dock.
My boat is 60'. Normally it can be done with three coats, 20 litres. Approx.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 29, 2016 11:28:14 GMT
Thanks for that. All noted! We may go over the scraped surface with an electric drill with one of those wire brush thingies to clean out any rust from pits. We'll drive by car to the dry dock first to see what's there and make our plan. I know that as soon as we arrive the clock is ticking. We'll be all over the hull like fleas on a hedgehog. Come to think of it, after all the pressure washing and scraping, a flame-thrower would be a good tool to really get it hot & dry! My dad used to have one, from his WW2 days in Ceylon, and I used to play with it.
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