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Post by kris on Oct 10, 2017 9:13:09 GMT
because we've already had a referendum on the question of in or out, why should we have another just because the majority of politicians didn't like the result? because it's not the politicians that count, the majority of the population don't like the result. You don't believe me? Then let's have a referendum and prove it. Are people not allowed to change their minds, especially over such an important issue? Especially when there's such a cock up, the process so far is a shambles? Politicians are only concerned with their own short term future. It cannot be left to them. what do you not understand about we've already had a referendum?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 9:15:38 GMT
Didn't the cock up happen when the EU decided to not give any significant concessions to the UK. Most people don't like the risks associated with change yet still voted for change. My belief is if we have a 'hard brexit' it will be the EU's fault not the UK's.
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Post by Clinton Cool on Oct 10, 2017 9:31:22 GMT
Democracy might allow another referendum, with a choice along these lines: Would you: a/ Leave the EU, accepting the trade deal negotiated by the government, agreed by other members. b/ Reject this agreement, leave the EU with no trade deal. Democracy shouldn't allow for a re run of the original referendum, that matter has already been resolved. Why not? Oh, I know, we'd stay in the EU! While for some it was a genuinely principled vote to leave, for others it was a protest vote, they didn't think there would be an Out majority (Cameron and his horde thought they were safe too) or they believed the brexiters lies (Boris is still touting the £350m a day lie) and people should be allowed to decide once they know and understand the true situation. So what are your reasons for excluding that option? Going back to the biased leaflet the government sent to every household before the referendum. This stated that the government would act on the result. It did, they served article 50 to give notice to leave, as the rules state. There was no provision in the referendum for complexities such as trade or the Irish border. It was simple, remain or leave, but it did state that leave would mean leaving the single market. Nothing material has changed since the referendum, politicians with both views continue to lie and spread scare stories. To re run the referendum would be a denial of democracy, a very dangerous one at that.
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Post by lollygagger on Oct 10, 2017 12:46:02 GMT
because we've already had a referendum on the question of in or out, why should we have another just because the majority of politicians didn't like the result? because it's not the politicians that count, the majority of the population don't like the result. You don't believe me? Then let's have a referendum and prove it. Are people not allowed to change their minds, especially over such an important issue? Especially when there's such a cock up, the process so far is a shambles? Politicians are only concerned with their own short term future. It cannot be left to them. Jim, Jim, Jim. I have met and handful of people who having now noticed how the EU behave would change their vote from remain to leave but not a single person who voted to leave and would now like to remain. I know you wish it were otherwise but keeping on repeating the mantra you do makes you look desperate and out of touch.
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Post by kris on Oct 10, 2017 12:52:55 GMT
because it's not the politicians that count, the majority of the population don't like the result. You don't believe me? Then let's have a referendum and prove it. Are people not allowed to change their minds, especially over such an important issue? Especially when there's such a cock up, the process so far is a shambles? Politicians are only concerned with their own short term future. It cannot be left to them. Jim, Jim, Jim. I have met and handful of people who having now noticed how the EU behave would change their vote from remain to leave but not a single person who voted to leave and would now like to remain. I know you wish it were otherwise but keeping on repeating the mantra you do makes you look desperate and out of touch. I think your right about this. Now that it's apparent that the eu are going to punish us to discourage any country following us out.
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Post by Saltysplash on Oct 10, 2017 13:16:43 GMT
Democracy might allow another referendum, with a choice along these lines: Would you: a/ Leave the EU, accepting the trade deal negotiated by the government, agreed by other members. b/ Reject this agreement, leave the EU with no trade deal. Democracy shouldn't allow for a re run of the original referendum, that matter has already been resolved. Why not? Oh, I know, we'd stay in the EU! While for some it was a genuinely principled vote to leave, for others it was a protest vote, they didn't think there would be an Out majority (Cameron and his horde thought they were safe too) or they believed the brexiters lies (Boris is still touting the £350m a day lie) and people should be allowed to decide once they know and understand the true situation. So what are your reasons for excluding that option? Do you have evidence to back this up or are you just believing the regular remain camp hype?
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Post by Saltysplash on Oct 10, 2017 13:17:43 GMT
because we've already had a referendum on the question of in or out, why should we have another just because the majority of politicians didn't like the result? the majority of the population don't like the result. You don't believe me? Evidence please
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 13:21:46 GMT
because we've already had a referendum on the question of in or out, why should we have another just because the majority of politicians didn't like the result? because it's not the politicians that count, the majority of the population don't like the result. You don't believe me? Then let's have a referendum and prove it. Are people not allowed to change their minds, especially over such an important issue? Especially when there's such a cock up, the process so far is a shambles? Politicians are only concerned with their own short term future. It cannot be left to them. yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/majority-favour-pushing-brexit-many-are-tempted-so/
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 14:35:14 GMT
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Post by Jim on Oct 10, 2017 14:53:03 GMT
because it's not the politicians that count, the majority of the population don't like the result. You don't believe me? Then let's have a referendum and prove it. Are people not allowed to change their minds, especially over such an important issue? Especially when there's such a cock up, the process so far is a shambles? Politicians are only concerned with their own short term future. It cannot be left to them. what do you not understand about we've already had a referendum? Of course I know, I voted. Read my posts, I've said why I think we should have another, perhaps you might have some cogent reasons why not.....
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Post by Jim on Oct 10, 2017 15:14:29 GMT
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Post by Jim on Oct 10, 2017 15:34:40 GMT
thunderboat is a nest of brexiters, hardly surprising given the age of the members. Once bitten twice shy! Thunderboat is nest of intelligent, resourceful boaters who know what it is to work hard, study hard, and earn your own money honestly. I'd presume so, but can we be certain, we have a knife murderer and a mad axeman in our midst, a posh pikey metal scavenger. Who hasn't pocketed cash takings and not declared them?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2017 16:36:39 GMT
thunderboat is a nest of brexiters, hardly surprising given the age of the members. study hard, and earn your own money honestly. Please don't include me in your survey!
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Post by kris on Oct 10, 2017 17:06:15 GMT
what do you not understand about we've already had a referendum? Of course I know, I voted. Read my posts, I've said why I think we should have another, perhaps you might have some cogent reasons why not..... because we've already had a referendum. If the politicians decide we are going to have another go. Then the UK becomes no better than the banana republics run by dictators around the world. In fact a dictatorship is more honest because it's not pretending to be a democracy. If we have another referendum, what about the goverment of the day deciding to run the general election again if they lose? What's the difference?
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Post by Jim on Oct 10, 2017 17:16:53 GMT
The government of the day would have won the election, and so could call another whenever they want, see this summer's debacle. If they lost then they couldn't. However governments have run more than one referendum until they've got what they want.
So you are saying people aren't allowed to change their minds as the facts of the matter become clear, after a few years? In which case the referendum that took us into the EU still stands, by your rules we can't have another to rescind it? Where is the democracy in that?
If you leavers had lost by a tiny percentage would you have shut up? No, you would have been crowded round Nigel, wittering on, and on, and on....
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