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Post by Jim on Dec 30, 2017 17:46:58 GMT
[/quote]you haven't answered the question, are you sure your not a politician?[/quote]
Not to your satisfaction, I agree. However, I find the current referendum process Dodgy, a small percentage of the populace, 28%, can inflict their whim on the rest. Perhaps if voting was mandatory, so that the whole voting populace voted, it would be fairer. Informed rational debate, no 350m battlebus lies, would also make for a more acceptable outcome, whichever way it went. As for "we voted out, now leave it to the politicians to do the deal" OK yes lets, most of them are remainers and would plump for the single market, out of EU but still able to trade freely with our biggest neighbour. But I doubt that's what's meant by that remark.
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Post by kris on Dec 30, 2017 18:13:03 GMT
So you are a politician then.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 18:18:09 GMT
As for "we voted out, now leave it to the politicians to do the deal" OK yes lets, most of them are remainers and would plump for the single market, out of EU but still able to trade freely with our biggest neighbour. But I doubt that's what's meant by that remark. That is exactly what I'd like to see and one that was voted for in the previous referendum on this subject. I doubt it will come to pass though.
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Post by naughtyfox on Dec 30, 2017 20:04:45 GMT
The question is Jim how would you feel about a second referendum if the first ones outcome had been to remain? The referendum was a political gambit gone wrong, the first of 2. There was no informed rational discussion to speak of, no plan in place to consider it carry it out Well.... so what? We Brits are reckless and impulsive, imaginative, inventive and able. We are not Teutonic slaves with no minds of their own 'obeying orders'. What's wrong with a bit of a gamble and a dive into the unknown?
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Post by naughtyfox on Dec 30, 2017 20:15:35 GMT
However, I find the current referendum process Dodgy, a small percentage of the populace, 28%, can inflict their whim on the rest. Try Finland where 4% are the rich Swedish-speaking 'elite' who make sure all of the real Finns have to learn Swedish at school, college and university - otherwise they are barred from further education and careers. What can you do with Swedish ffs??!! They all speak English in Sweden, Norway and Denmark. The real reason is to keep the 'elite club' going and to tease the 'stupid Finns who we use as a buffer against Russia'.
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 30, 2017 20:30:20 GMT
I find the current referendum process Dodgy, a small percentage of the populace, 28%, can inflict their whim on the rest. Perhaps if voting was mandatory, so that the whole voting populace voted, it would be fairer. Every general election is the same. You're clutching at straws Jim. Foxy put his finger on it a few posts back. We are not sheep. You may not approve of the basis for others decision making, but they are every bit as valid as yours.
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Post by thebfg on Dec 30, 2017 21:10:53 GMT
As for "we voted out, now leave it to the politicians to do the deal" OK yes lets, most of them are remainers and would plump for the single market, out of EU but still able to trade freely with our biggest neighbour. But I doubt that's what's meant by that remark. That is exactly what I'd like to see and one that was voted for in the previous referendum on this subject. I doubt it will come to pass though. One may presume it was my remark you alluded to. Whatever the outcome they were elected to do stuff like this, on our behalf. If that means some sort of deal then so be it.
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Post by patty on Dec 31, 2017 7:35:19 GMT
It was never gonna be an easy and painless extraction from Europe...couldn't be because if it had been we would have started an exodus of disappointed member states...they had to make it tough to keep others in line or see the break up of EU...
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Post by Jim on Dec 31, 2017 9:55:25 GMT
I find the current referendum process Dodgy, a small percentage of the populace, 28%, can inflict their whim on the rest. Perhaps if voting was mandatory, so that the whole voting populace voted, it would be fairer. Every general election is the same. You're clutching at straws Jim. Foxy put his finger on it a few posts back. We are not sheep. You may not approve of the basis for others decision making, but they are every bit as valid as yours. I have the same issue with general elections, (only when Tories winπ)I think voting should be mandatory. Works well elsewhere. If you don't agree you can always spoil your ballot paper.
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 31, 2017 10:09:51 GMT
Every general election is the same. You're clutching at straws Jim. Foxy put his finger on it a few posts back. We are not sheep. You may not approve of the basis for others decision making, but they are every bit as valid as yours. I have the same issue with general elections, (only when Tories winπ)I think voting should be mandatory. Works well elsewhere. If you don't agree you can always spoil your ballot paper. Works well elsewhere? Where? All we get from politicians, whatever party gets in, is tinkering. They are too shit scared, self serving and lazy to do more than the minimum. Even now they don't want to leave eu because they have to do things and take the blame. It's so much easier to take the money, do some minor tinkering then retire to an unelected eu job (labour) or a handful of non-exec directorships (tory). Forcing people to vote is just more propping up of a failed system, a system that has failed the majority for 50 years or more. As most of the people you would force to vote have never spent more than 5 consecutive minutes thinking about politics, all forcing them to vote would do is to make it look better to outsiders and easier for politicians to blame the electorate for their self serving botchery..
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 31, 2017 10:29:41 GMT
What is wrong with my way? All those who want a 'Conservative' (Capitalist/laws of nature - dog-eat-dog) government can live on one side of the country, all the 'Labour' love-and-peace 'socialists' can live on the other side of Britain. You can change sides if you wish. Everybody happy! Scotland converted from Labour to SNP to try something similar.
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Post by Jim on Dec 31, 2017 11:16:43 GMT
What is wrong with my way? All those who want a 'Conservative' (Capitalist/laws of nature - dog-eat-dog) government can live on one side of the country, all the 'Labour' love-and-peace 'socialists' can live on the other side of Britain. You can change sides if you wish. Everybody happy! Scotland converted from Labour to SNP to try something similar. Tories can have the Isle if Wight. Simple. Then scupper the ferry.
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Post by thebfg on Dec 31, 2017 11:27:58 GMT
Every general election is the same. You're clutching at straws Jim. Foxy put his finger on it a few posts back. We are not sheep. You may not approve of the basis for others decision making, but they are every bit as valid as yours. I have the same issue with general elections, (only when Tories winπ)I think voting should be mandatory. Works well elsewhere. If you don't agree you can always spoil your ballot paper. I'm not sure if we forced people to vote we could still claim to live in a democracy. We have a right to freedom to speech but we also have a freedom to not speak.
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Post by kris on Dec 31, 2017 11:30:24 GMT
I have the same issue with general elections, (only when Tories winπ)I think voting should be mandatory. Works well elsewhere. If you don't agree you can always spoil your ballot paper. I'm not sure if we forced people to vote we could still claim to live in a democracy. We have a right to freedom to speech but we also have a freedom to not speak. the paradox involved in enforcing democracy has been pointed out to Jim before.
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Post by Jim on Dec 31, 2017 11:35:24 GMT
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