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Post by TonyDunkley on Feb 1, 2018 9:06:52 GMT
I've been itching to start holding forth on this subject ever since kris posted it up the other day, but have been too tied up with various other things and lacking the time to do so. Anyway, I've got some time to spare now so I'll make a start, . . . prepare to be bored stiff in at least two parts ! I have some limited first hand memories of what are now called Upper Trent boats from a good number of derelict ones that layed in the lagoons along the South side of the wide part of Sawley Cut when I was a very young lad, . . where the boat club moorings are now. The remainder of my limited knowledge of these craft is confined to what I can remember hearing from some of the boatmen I knew and learned my trade from who, as young men themselves, had either worked these boats, or had been working other types on the Trent whilst they were still in use. The barges trading on the Trent in the late 1800's and into the early to mid 1900's were known as either 'Trent' boats or 'Hull' boats, and from what I can remember being told, the 'Trent' boats were limited generally to working above Gainsborough, or occasionally from Keadby but certainly no further downriver. At one time in the long distant past the Trent was navigable up to Burton on a draught of, I believe, around 2' 6'' to 3' 0'', but for some of the deeper draughted 'Trent' boats (up to about a maximum of 3' 6'' to 3' 9'') that were using the river above Nottingham from about the 1920's the top end limit of navigation was the wharf and warehousing near to Wilden Ferry at Shardlow. They loaded direct from ships at Keadby or Gainsborough, or from 'Hull' boats at Newark and were from 14' 0" to 14' 6'' beam and from around 60' up to a maximum of around 76' long. Some of the shorter (up to 72') and 14' beam jobs could get up the canal to Grantham or the Trent and Mersey to Shardlow, and the 14' or 14' 6'' x 62' boats could trade as far as Leicester, through the short locks at Kegworth and Loughborough (Bishop's Meadow). The 'Trent' boats differed from the 'Hull' boats in being a bit sharper ended, some with a raised aft deck, but all with a flat sheer, narrower side-decks, and shallower coamings, although the head and stern ledges were about normal height, and just sheets (without wooden hatch covers) for covering up. The mast was shorter, carrying just one square sail instead of the main and topsail the 'Hull' boats had, and also unlike the 'Hull' boats (usually known nowadays as 'Humber Keels') they weren't equipped with leeboards. The 'Hull' boats trading on the Trent were mainly of three standard sizes, although there were many variations built specifically for other canal and river navigations accessible from the Humber. All but a few of the 'Hull' boats trading to either Lincoln or Nottingham were 'Trent size' (82' 6'' x 14' 6''), 'Lincoln size' (74' 0'' x 15' 3'') or 'Sheffield size' (61' 6'' x 15' 6''). Some Lincoln size and Sheffield size boats did trade up the Trent to Nottingham after the old Trent size locks at Newark and Colwick (Holme Lock and Colwick/Holme Flood Lock) were replaced with the 'new' four-boat locks that the river has today, but unlike the Trent sized Hull boats they could get no further than Meadow Lane wharf in Nottingham because their beam was just a few inches too much for the first lock in the Nottingham Canal just by the topside of Meadow Lane wharf, but the Trent size boats could, and frequently did, go up the canal to Wilford Street warehouse, just below Castle Lock in Nottingham. Evidence of this use of the canal by these Hull boats can still be seen in the missing stonework, knocked out by the deck edges and spring timbers, high up on the outside of the arch of the old Meadow Lane bridge by the side of London Road (A60) in Nottingham. To end this post by answering your query, kris, the leading boat of the two in the first photo is definitely an (Upper) Trent job, but the last one in the tow looks more like a Hull boat, going by the sheer and the number of timber-heads, although it looks to be a bit sharper ended than the normal flat ended Hull boat would be. If I had to say where the photo was taken I'd reckon it's about halfway from Fiskerton Ferry to the short rack just lowside of Hazleford Lock called 'Ladies Piece'. The second photo is definitely an (Upper) Trent boat, but the models in the third and fourth are of Hull boats. The last photo is a Hull boat, underway without it's leeboards, and probably a 'Sheffield size'. The drawing is of a typical sort of layout of an (Upper) Trent boat.
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Post by bargemast on Feb 1, 2018 11:34:52 GMT
Hello Tony, of course I can only speak for myself, but there's not the slightest chance that you can make me feel bored reading these stories.
Your "prepare to be bored stiff in at least two parts !", isn't for me.
I'm looking forward to the next part.
Thanks for writing about this interesting history.
Peter.
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Post by kris on Feb 1, 2018 12:29:22 GMT
I don't find it boring either, as I now know that two of the photos I posted are of hull boats and not upper Trent boats. I find the photos of the boats under sail very interesting because you can see clearly the morse heritage of the boats.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 1, 2018 13:31:58 GMT
Thanks for that Tony, like Peter and Kris, I find the history of the various types of vessel fascinating !!! Up till now the only place I think I have seen any information about upper Trent craft was a very short paragraph in Paget-Tomlinson's book "Illustrated History of Canal and River Navigations" (I just had to go and check the bookshelves for where I had seen it)
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Post by TonyDunkley on Feb 1, 2018 14:18:55 GMT
Thank you all for those kind words. I've just added a bit more info. and detail that I had forgotten to include earlier, and there'll likely be some more that'll come to mind as well, . . I'll keep adding in/on anything else as when I think of it.
I'll carry on with the story later tonight if there's time, or if not, then perhaps tomorrow. Commercial traffic, transhipped from 'Hull' boats, on the Trent above Nottingham and on the Soar to Leicester, did in fact continue until into the late 1950's using what were known as 'Nottingham Pans' with 'Bantam' push-tugs, and some Leeds & Liverpool shortboats, in place of the old style (upper) 'Trent' boats, and there was a brief revival of it, carrying imported timber, in the mid 1960's by the Leicester based canal carriers I went to work for after I left school.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 17:21:18 GMT
I've never been so bored rigid in my short life !
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Post by Jim on Feb 1, 2018 17:27:17 GMT
I've never been so bored rigid in my short life ! Just think...slightly bigger colvic with a rag and stick....then you won't hate them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 17:27:41 GMT
I've never been so bored rigid in my short life ! What an idiot. I dont see anybody holding you down and forcing you to read it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 17:35:58 GMT
What an idiot. I dont see anybody holding you down and forcing you to have a sense of humour.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 18:08:36 GMT
What an idiot. I dont see anybody holding you down and forcing you to have a sense of humour. Ah right, a 'joke'.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 18:25:38 GMT
Yes. If you had been paying attention you would have noticed that I am a Big Fan of inland waterways history and I recognise that while TD is a -words removed- in some peoples eyes he does have a lot of knowledge and it is a Good Thing that this knowledge is shared.
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Post by flatdog on Feb 1, 2018 19:30:09 GMT
Tom. Though you may 'think' your recollections are boring, as you were there and it was your experience growing up, many of us come from very different backgrounds, brought together here on TB because of our common interest, please share as much as you can, we newbies ( i'm 56 but newish to england) love listening or reading about personal experiences in this life. (I grew up in a totally different world to here, and also am always surprised how much people want to know my experiences as its interesting to them but boring to me)
Thats the punchline, it's INTERESTING and to most nostalgic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 19:40:40 GMT
Tony
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 19:46:18 GMT
Yes. If you had been paying attention you would have noticed that I am a Big Fan of inland waterways history and I recognise that while TD is a -words removed- in some peoples eyes he does have a lot of knowledge and it is a Good Thing that this knowledge is shared. Well if you mean by paying attention I read all you post then it may come as a surprise that I don't. FTR I do enjoy a lot of what TD posts and I agree that he holds a lot of knowledge and is an asset to the forum, I just don't agree with everything he posts.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 19:51:26 GMT
Yes. If you had been paying attention you would have noticed that I am a Big Fan of inland waterways history and I recognise that while TD is a -words removed- in some peoples eyes he does have a lot of knowledge and it is a Good Thing that this knowledge is shared. Well if you mean by paying attention I read all you post then it may come as a surprise that I don't. FTR I do enjoy a lot of what TD posts and I agree that he holds a lot of knowledge and is an asset to the forum, I just don't agree with everything he posts. You don't read all my posts ? That's terrible. You have missed a great opportunity to have enhanced your life experience. oh well that's your loss. I don't give a shit.
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