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Post by faffer on Jan 27, 2019 19:37:02 GMT
After some toing an frowing, cant think how to spell that lol. think i will do an experimnet on how insulations retain heat. This has come after so many GRP boat owner say that the foil backed bubble wrap is th ebest overall.
My experiment will be plywood box`s lined out with insulation being, bubble wrap of two thicknesses, 25mm/50mm Poly Foam board ( Celotex/JKinspan ) two Thinsulate types. Then each box will have a thermometer fitted inside and reading out side like the digital fish tank ones. Each box will be heated to 25deg and left and temps reading taken every 15 mins.
Never done an experiment before and just real interested in this as its been such a debate with so many GRP boat owners.
How does this sound?
Captain Faffer
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 19:46:07 GMT
Sounds like a good experiment.
Do you have to actually check the temps every 15 minutes or is there some sort of data logging ?
If you don't have data logging might it be worthwhile putting a phone camera on video in front of the thermometer displays then fast forward it at a later point to get the 15 minute interval data.
Then you can do other things.
This would also allow you to address any concerns from anorak types suggesting that the 15 minute option was an inappropriate scale.
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Post by naughtyfox on Jan 27, 2019 19:51:00 GMT
to-ing and fro-ing
It's how I would have spelled it, but I had to look it up to see what others say. English is not an easy language.
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Post by faffer on Jan 27, 2019 19:51:55 GMT
Sounds like a good experiment. Do you have to actually check the temps every 15 minutes or is there some sort of data logging ? If you don't have data logging might it be worthwhile putting a phone camera on video in front of the thermometer displays then fast forward it at a later point to get the 15 minute interval data. Then you can do other things. This would also allow you to address any concerns from anorak types suggesting that the 15 minute option was an inappropriate scale. The 15 ins was just of top of the head thought. I get your point and that can be done. All therm reading on camera can be done. It would tak long though as over an hour should be enough to take readings so only four readings.
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Post by faffer on Jan 27, 2019 19:53:43 GMT
to-ing and fro-ing It's how I would have spelled it, but I had to look it up to see what others say. English is not an easy language. 44 years of being a true Englishman and i have given up now lol. Cant be boved to look some things up either.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 20:01:09 GMT
I've been here 44 years as well Will be 45 end of april
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Post by faffer on Jan 27, 2019 20:07:37 GMT
I've been here 44 years as well Will be 45 end of april Dam you young wipper snapper, me end June Look on bright side i will have my bus pass sooner. Not that i will ever get on a bus again.
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Post by faffer on Jan 27, 2019 20:10:08 GMT
What size box will do, i was thinking on 2 foot but then 1 foot cube will do ?
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Post by phil70 on Jan 27, 2019 20:11:19 GMT
to-ing and fro-ing It's how I would have spelled it, but I had to look it up to see what others say. English is not an easy language. Foxy it has to be said that you have no trouble using your quota plus a few other people's Phil
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 20:15:19 GMT
What size box will do, i was thinking on 2 foot but then 1 foot cube will do ? Its quite technical ! I think @gazza might be the man for this
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Post by faffer on Jan 27, 2019 20:22:22 GMT
What size box will do, i was thinking on 2 foot but then 1 foot cube will do ? Its quite technical ! I think @gazza might be the man for this That is what i was thinking, but then, it wouldnt matter the size of box as it will still give the same reading on temp loss as long as all is set up the same. Well as i see it. A large box may not loose temps as quick a samll box as more heat inside but still loose it similar rates ? Gazza ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 21:39:07 GMT
A very dull table. www.builditsolar.com/References/MILRvalues/MILRvalues.htmWere it me having a crack at this I'd go for a 1' cube, everything being relative the insulation properties don't change - you are just heating up a larger area if you increase the size of the box. Now to prove that theory you'd need to do tests with a 1' cube, a 2' cube, a 3' cube and so on! Normally practicality comes into it - there is no point reinventing the wheel! On a cruiser cabin intrusion is a premium, a carpet covered ply lining with an air gap to the superstructure will be better than a bare grp superstructure, a thin layer of foil backed insulation will be better again. There isn't usally the space for spray foam or insulation bats. Steel boats cabin intrusion isn't usally so much of an issue - you then come down to what others have done before, polystyrene is hopeless, bats work but spray foam is the only real way to go. If faffer is at a loose end it would be an interesting experiment, a time consuming one mind! All variables need tightly controlling and data needs to be accurate for it to be worth the effort. Me, I'd get that hood done
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Post by ched on Jan 27, 2019 22:24:29 GMT
Ow do Faffer, I specify insulation products in my job albeit for them land lubber types. You might want to look into 'u' and 'r' values that the manufacturers of these products give as a heads-up on your experiment (I could bore you some more if you really wanted me to?). What gazza says rings true about the build-up of layers and this too can all be calculated to give a combined u-value (but obviously it's the insulation type and thickness that performs most of the 'work' in resisting the heat flow). As well as air tightness, we also factor in any thermal bridging in our designs that take account for parts of the structure that are less resistant to thermal transmittance i.e. fixings, timber studs etc (worth thinking about on a boat!) I always fancied using one of these Aergel products on a boat given the relative thinness: www.proctorgroup.com/products/spacetherm#wrapthermThey are a bit pricier than the others you mention (shame really as the manufacturing process of aerogel has been around since the 70's) but given the small area of a boat, it might stack-up financially.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 8:17:47 GMT
Ow do Faffer, I specify insulation products in my job albeit for them land lubber types. You might want to look into 'u' and 'r' values that the manufacturers of these products give as a heads-up on your experiment (I could bore you some more if you really wanted me to?). What gazza says rings true about the build-up of layers and this too can all be calculated to give a combined u-value (but obviously it's the insulation type and thickness that performs most of the 'work' in resisting the heat flow). As well as air tightness, we also factor in any thermal bridging in our designs that take account for parts of the structure that are less resistant to thermal transmittance i.e. fixings, timber studs etc (worth thinking about on a boat!) I always fancied using one of these Aergel products on a boat given the relative thinness: www.proctorgroup.com/products/spacetherm#wrapthermThey are a bit pricier than the others you mention (shame really as the manufacturing process of aerogel has been around since the 70's) but given the small area of a boat, it might stack-up financially. Flat I have a small house project which has sound insulation problems, just how easy is this stuff to affix to the existing inside walls? Also one wall of a bedroom which is cold, as it is not a cavity type wall. I have put some poly lining paper on the bedroom wall, but its not really a permanent solution as it has to be covered with wallpaper, and it is not really ideal insulation either. NBoat I see the Aerogel make insulated floor battens, these might work for cabin roofs, if they could bend to shape [thinking about cutting a number of "slices" out of the wood using a thick saw. I'm not 100 percent sure about laying floor insulation under engineered wood flooring, but if the material is very thin and semi permeable, so as not to trap condensate, I can see the benefit in winter.
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Post by JohnV on Jan 28, 2019 8:34:02 GMT
Ow do Faffer, I specify insulation products in my job albeit for them land lubber types. You might want to look into 'u' and 'r' values that the manufacturers of these products give as a heads-up on your experiment (I could bore you some more if you really wanted me to?). What gazza says rings true about the build-up of layers and this too can all be calculated to give a combined u-value (but obviously it's the insulation type and thickness that performs most of the 'work' in resisting the heat flow). As well as air tightness, we also factor in any thermal bridging in our designs that take account for parts of the structure that are less resistant to thermal transmittance i.e. fixings, timber studs etc (worth thinking about on a boat!) I always fancied using one of these Aergel products on a boat given the relative thinness: www.proctorgroup.com/products/spacetherm#wrapthermThey are a bit pricier than the others you mention (shame really as the manufacturing process of aerogel has been around since the 70's) but given the small area of a boat, it might stack-up financially. I have a small house project which has sound insulation problems, just how easy is this stuff to affix to the existing walls? Also one wall of a bedroom which is cold, as it is not a cavity type wall. I have put some poly lining paper on the bedroom wall, but its not really a permanent solution as it has to be covered wit wallpaper. Before I moved onto the boat I had a Victorian semi .... 9" walls and the bedroom was an excellent imitation of an ice box in winter. Like you I went the polyliner way at first but as you say it ain't that good. I got fed up with having to reach out and pull clothes into the bed with me so that they would warm up enough to put on. " I lined the room with a foam backed plasterboard which I glued directly to the external walls ..... no battens just non solvent based "sticks like $@&" or the like. Because of the design of the room I had to use fairly thin stuff (it was about an inch and a half if I remember right) but it made a tremendous difference. I only lined the exterior wall but not the party wall (next door neighbour had central heating ) It was quite a lot of work but well worth it and it was easy to finish it off so that you couldn't see it was there. edit to add .... reason don't remember details is because it was about 20 years ago
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