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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 6, 2019 16:05:42 GMT
I think that if I had driven a boat up the Thames I would have pre-thought every step of the journey* and worked out beforehand which arch of which bridge to go through (unless things had changed upon arrival). I am planning our next trip already, examining which churches are ringing on what evenings, and a sweep through of the pubs of Kidderminster and Stourbridge on Tripadvisor and beerintheevening.com I shall also be phoning to Ashwood Nurseries to see if they sell logs, as we have almost run out.
Ooh, just remembered - going down the Thames this Summer! Oxford to Reading. Want to know where to park up for 6 nights and avoid District Bastards' parking tickets.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 16:22:45 GMT
I think that if I had driven a boat up the Thames I would have pre-thought every step of the journey* and worked out beforehand which arch of which bridge to go through (unless things had changed upon arrival). I am planning our next trip already, examining which churches are ringing on what evenings, and a sweep through of the pubs of Kidderminster and Stourbridge on Tripadvisor and beerintheevening.com I shall also be phoning to Ashwood Nurseries to see if they sell logs, as we have almost run out. Ooh, just remembered - going down the Thames this Summer! Oxford to Reading. Want to know where to park up for 6 nights and avoid District Bastards' parking tickets. You sound just like me. (shit, did I just say that?)
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Post by JohnV on Feb 6, 2019 16:28:41 GMT
Fair enough. When was that ? I've been through LH a few times each year for the last ten years and always been asked for boat name and number. This seems a good arrangement. <iframe width="19.360000000000014" height="3.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 19.360000000000014px; height: 3.8799999999999955px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_71329845" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="19.360000000000014" height="3.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 19.36px; height: 3.88px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 913px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_65523581" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="19.360000000000014" height="3.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 19.36px; height: 3.88px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 134px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_36278823" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="19.360000000000014" height="3.8799999999999955" style="position: absolute; width: 19.36px; height: 3.88px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 913px; top: 134px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_59169059" scrolling="no"></iframe> september 2012 ...... wonder if it was all a bit screwed up at the time because of the Olympics eta .... they were more interested in boats in bound ..... actually thinking about it CRT didn't ask where I was going either but I did speak to VTS as I was locking out but of course they would only now my name Just been remembering ..... I arrived at Limehouse and they weren't letting anyone through the lock into the basin if they weren't booked....... I wasn't and kicked up a fuss at being a pensioner on their own trapped in a dodgy area by officialdom etc etc and while that was happening a booked in boat was also complaining and then there was trouble with a couple of yobs on scrambles bikes riding on the towpath so they just shooed us both into the basin and nothing more was said about booking.
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Post by TonyDunkley on Feb 6, 2019 17:19:20 GMT
There was no one, single cause behind last Summer's spate of incidents involving canal boats on the Thames tideway, but it was C&RT who were sending inexperienced people in ill-equipped and less than ideally suitable boats into what must be the busiest and most congested few miles of commercially used river in the UK. Much of the responsibility for any incidents, mishaps or serious accidents must therefore rest with with those having ultimate control over passage through the locks at Bow, Limehouse, and Brentford.
A total of eight incidents was quoted by the PLA, including Mr Stabby's 10 August attempt to widen one of the arches at the Blackfriars Bridges, but thanks in large part to his irresponsible refusal to contact and talk to the PLA, and the witless encouragement and support he received in that from certain TB members, a good opportunity went begging for C&RT, the PLA, and any interested boaters who wanted to join in, to work out and put in place some routine procedures and rules for keeping the inbound, VHF-less, Limehouse ditchcrawlers out of trouble, especially whilst the works in the vicinity of the Blackfriars Bridges (see PLA NtM's M50) remain in place with 2 x arch closures on the Northern bank.
Whilst the works and arch closures remain in place at Blackfriars there is a fundamental and dangerous flaw in the PLA Guidance which demands immediate attention. With arches 1 and 2 closed at Blackfriars Bridges, inbound vessels following the instructions in the PLA guidance to give outbounds a red throughout the tideway passage are forced to use the same main working arch that outbound large commercials always use at the Blackfriars Bridges, which is what I think Mr Stabby was doing on 10 August last, and the reason why he was confronted with the tug and tow that frightened him into going hard astern and losing control of his bowels and his boat.
If he would produce the -quote - "comprehensive account of the whole incident " which he said he would do on 12 August, it would confirm if my suppositions are correct, and would be very useful to the PLA, and C&RT if they can be persuaded to join in and act like a responsible Harbour Authority, in formulating some standard procedures and measures to avoid the repetition of similar and equally dangerous occurrences in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 17:30:20 GMT
There was no one, single cause behind last Summer's spate of incidents involving canal boats on the Thames tideway, but it was C&RT who were sending inexperienced people in ill-equipped and less than ideally suitable boats into what must be the busiest and most congested few miles of commercially used river in the UK. Much of the responsibility for any incidents, mishaps or serious accidents must therefore rest with with those having ultimate control over passage through the locks at Bow, Limehouse, and Brentford. A total of eight incidents was quoted by the PLA, including Mr Stabby's 10 August attempt to widen one of the arches at the Blackfriars Bridges, but thanks in large part to his irresponsible refusal to contact and talk to the PLA, and the witless encouragement and support he received in that from certain TB members, a good opportunity went begging for C&RT, the PLA, and any interested boaters who wanted to join in, to work out and put in place some routine procedures and rules for keeping the inbound, VHF-less, Limehouse ditchcrawlers out of trouble, especially whilst the works in the vicinity of the Blackfriars Bridges (see PLA NtM's M50) remain in place with 2 x arch closures on the Northern bank. Whilst the works and arch closures remain in place at Blackfriars there is a fundamental and dangerous flaw in the PLA Guidance which demands immediate attention. With arches 1 and 2 closed at Blackfriars Bridges, inbound vessels following the instructions in the PLA guidance to give outbounds a red throughout the tideway passage are forced to use the same main working arch that outbound large commercials always use at the Blackfriars Bridges, which is what I think Mr Stabby was doing on 10 August last, and the reason why he was confronted with the tug and tow that frightened him into going hard astern and losing control of his bowels and his boat. If he would produce the -quote - "comprehensive account of the whole incident " which he said he would do on 12 August, it would confirm if my suppositions are correct, and would be very useful to the PLA, and C&RT if they can be persuaded to join in and act like a responsible Harbour Authority, in formulating some standard procedures and measures to avoid the repetition of similar and equally dangerous occurrences in the future. I’ll repeat my question one last time. Do you want to ban narrow boats from that stretch of the Thames? Can you recommend anyone who can help people who want to do that stretch?
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Post by JohnV on Feb 6, 2019 18:04:21 GMT
There was no one, single cause behind last Summer's spate of incidents involving canal boats on the Thames tideway, but it was C&RT who were sending inexperienced people in ill-equipped and less than ideally suitable boats into what must be the busiest and most congested few miles of commercially used river in the UK. Much of the responsibility for any incidents, mishaps or serious accidents must therefore rest with with those having ultimate control over passage through the locks at Bow, Limehouse, and Brentford. A total of eight incidents was quoted by the PLA, including Mr Stabby's 10 August attempt to widen one of the arches at the Blackfriars Bridges, but thanks in large part to his irresponsible refusal to contact and talk to the PLA, and the witless encouragement and support he received in that from certain TB members, a good opportunity went begging for C&RT, the PLA, and any interested boaters who wanted to join in, to work out and put in place some routine procedures and rules for keeping the inbound, VHF-less, Limehouse ditchcrawlers out of trouble, especially whilst the works in the vicinity of the Blackfriars Bridges (see PLA NtM's M50) remain in place with 2 x arch closures on the Northern bank. Whilst the works and arch closures remain in place at Blackfriars there is a fundamental and dangerous flaw in the PLA Guidance which demands immediate attention. With arches 1 and 2 closed at Blackfriars Bridges, inbound vessels following the instructions in the PLA guidance to give outbounds a red throughout the tideway passage are forced to use the same main working arch that outbound large commercials always use at the Blackfriars Bridges, which is what I think Mr Stabby was doing on 10 August last, and the reason why he was confronted with the tug and tow that frightened him into going hard astern and losing control of his bowels and his boat. If he would produce the -quote - "comprehensive account of the whole incident " which he said he would do on 12 August, it would confirm if my suppositions are correct, and would be very useful to the PLA, and C&RT if they can be persuaded to join in and act like a responsible Harbour Authority, in formulating some standard procedures and measures to avoid the repetition of similar and equally dangerous occurrences in the future. I’ll repeat my question one last time. Do you want to ban narrow boats from that stretch of the Thames? Can you recommend anyone who can help people who want to do that stretch? I'm damned if I can see anything that could possibly be read into Tony's posts that could lead to that conclusion and to answer your second question the best authority for that kind of help is dev.stpancrascc.co.uk/
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 18:12:30 GMT
My advice having done the Limehouse to Tedddington run quite a few times each way is that if you are in a narrow boat try to organise yourself around a date which allows you to leave Limehouse at 0530.
Yes it is early but you will miss almost all of the commercial traffic and the River will be like your own private waterway for most of your journey.
This is very pleasant.
Also beware if its windy you will notice it out on the river specially if there are commercials and trip boats around.
The last time I did a 0530 exit was 2016 on my barge and the only vessel I met on the way was an early Clipper up near Westminster.
way to go. Unless you prefer it to be all rough and unrelaxing. Some people prefer that to be fair.
It does get very rough if its breezy. I've had a couple of runs where the barge which is 57x12ft was "slamming" ie the base plate at the front was clear of the water over a wave trough and slammed into the next crest. Quite alarming.
narrow boats tend to cut through more as they have relatively low forward buoyancy. My barge has bluff bows so lots of buoyancy to lift it up over waves.
Big chop around HMS Belfast on a windy day.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 6, 2019 18:19:27 GMT
My advice having done the Limehouse to Tedddington run quite a few times each way is that if you are in a narrow boat try to organise yourself around a date which allows you to leave Limehouse at 0530. go along with that .... I left about then (still just dark) and as Andrew said .... I had the river to myself early morning on the Thames by mudlarker2, on Flickr
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 18:20:21 GMT
I’ll repeat my question one last time. Do you want to ban narrow boats from that stretch of the Thames? Can you recommend anyone who can help people who want to do that stretch? I'm damned if I can see anything that could possibly be read into Tony's posts that could lead to that conclusion and to answer your second question the best authority for that kind of help is dev.stpancrascc.co.uk/No conclusions here. Just asking two straight questions which Tony hasn’t answered to...and doesn’t need to. My mind is never made up, and never will be. But until people start saying what they REALLY think, we will continue the play to the tune of the merry dance of words.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 6, 2019 18:22:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 18:29:27 GMT
John, do you think narrow boats should be banned from that stretch of the Thames? There is no right or wrong answer, I do respect the opinions of you and Tony. as you have more experience.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 6, 2019 18:41:17 GMT
John, do you think narrow boats should be banned from that stretch of the Thames? There is no right or wrong answer, I do respect the opinions of you and Tony. as you have more experience. No way !!! Narrowboats are fine on the tideway providing they have prepared for the trip. I think there should be more care taken on making sure they have got all the information they need before they are locked out. I'm not sure you can protect total idiots from themselves (and no that isn't a dig at Vince, he was just not given the right info) I'm talking about the sort of case where they immediately conk out because the muck in the fuel tank gets stirred up Or the one not long ago that had been doubled and the ballast not corrected and took water on through the engine air intakes. As Andrew said, timing is important, not just for the tides but also to try to avoid the busiest times for the Thames Clippers and even worse those high speed ribs
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 6, 2019 18:41:56 GMT
Personally, I think it's stupid for narrow boats to go into choppy water, they are designed for the flat water of canals. Get a proper boat if you want to bash about on rivers and the sea. You don't see many Shire horses at Ascot.
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 6, 2019 18:43:32 GMT
John, do you think narrow boats should be banned from that stretch of the Thames? There is no right or wrong answer, I do respect the opinions of you and Tony. as you have more experience. I'm not sure you can protect total idiots from themselves I'm talking about the sort of case where they immediately conk out because the muck in the fuel tank gets stirred up I'm going to print that and frame it!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 18:51:54 GMT
John, do you think narrow boats should be banned from that stretch of the Thames? There is no right or wrong answer, I do respect the opinions of you and Tony. as you have more experience. No way !!! Narrowboats are fine on the tideway providing they have prepared for the trip. I think there should be more care taken on making sure they have got all the information they need before they are locked out. I'm not sure you can protect total idiots from themselves (and no that isn't a dig at Vince) I'm talking about the sort of case where they immediately conk out because the muck in the fuel tank gets stirred up Or the one not long ago that had been doubled and the ballast not corrected and took water on through the engine air intakes. As Andrew said, timing is important, not just for the tides but also to try to avoid the busiest times for the Thames Clippers and even worse those high speed ribs I know exactly where you are coming from. I remember once waiting for the morning tide at Teddington (going Eastbound) when a narrow boat turned up late at night expecting the lockie to let them through. Some people just rely on maps!
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