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Post by JohnV on May 6, 2019 6:37:38 GMT
I think you will find that news report is actually now old news The type of lithium batteries that I and Peterboat use (and now many of the electric cars) are LiFePO4 batteries that do not contain cobalt although many other types of lithium batteries do contain cobalt the argument is not to do with cars
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Post by ianali on May 6, 2019 7:46:26 GMT
I doubt very much that we are given all the facts, nor all the reasons about why we need to change to electric powered vehicles. I suspect it probably has more to do with finance than saving lives. The news seems to change daily about the best way to cut global warming. This mornings latest research suggests cutting pollution will increase the earths temperatures. How can any of us know what is best? I am not bothered whether my boat is diesel or electrically propelled. I will hang on to my petrol powered bikes though as I would miss them dearly.
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Post by JohnV on May 6, 2019 7:57:28 GMT
I am not bothered whether my boat is diesel or electrically propelled. <iframe width="27.12000000000012" height="3.6000000000000085" style="position: absolute; width: 27.12px; height: 3.6px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_86002806" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="27.12000000000012" height="3.6000000000000085" style="position: absolute; width: 27.12px; height: 3.6px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1293px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_991858" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="27.12000000000012" height="3.6000000000000085" style="position: absolute; width: 27.12px; height: 3.6px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 87px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_71031313" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="27.12000000000012" height="3.6000000000000085" style="position: absolute; width: 27.12px; height: 3.6px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1293px; top: 87px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_58011676" scrolling="no"></iframe> with the present level of technology I would be loth to change to electric. Shapfell is not really big enough to house the solar panels needed for normal canal cruising. It would not be a practical solution (at least without the use of a diesel generator as well ) Sabina is even more problematic, the size and cost of a battery bank capable of giving a good range at the power level needed to shove 80 ton against a headwind/sea/tide is daunting <iframe width="26.700000000000045" height="2.9399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 26.7px; height: 2.94px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_5960750" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="26.700000000000045" height="2.9399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 26.7px; height: 2.94px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1272px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_76258543" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="26.700000000000045" height="2.9399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 26.7px; height: 2.94px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 88px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_25489432" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="26.700000000000045" height="2.9399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 26.7px; height: 2.94px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1272px; top: 88px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_99609428" scrolling="no"></iframe> hybrid would be a possibility but for either boat the cost is probably beyond my pocket
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Post by kris on May 6, 2019 8:40:38 GMT
I am not bothered whether my boat is diesel or electrically propelled. <iframe width="27.12000000000012" height="3.6000000000000085" style="position: absolute; width: 27.12px; height: 3.6px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_86002806" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="27.12000000000012" height="3.6000000000000085" style="position: absolute; width: 27.12px; height: 3.6px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1293px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_991858" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="27.12000000000012" height="3.6000000000000085" style="position: absolute; width: 27.12px; height: 3.6px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 87px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_71031313" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="27.12000000000012" height="3.6000000000000085" style="position: absolute; width: 27.12px; height: 3.6px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1293px; top: 87px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_58011676" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="26.700000000000045" height="2.9399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 26.7px; height: 2.94px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_5960750" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="26.700000000000045" height="2.9399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 26.7px; height: 2.94px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1272px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_76258543" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="26.700000000000045" height="2.9399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 26.7px; height: 2.94px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 88px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_25489432" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="26.700000000000045" height="2.9399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 26.7px; height: 2.94px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1272px; top: 88px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_99609428" scrolling="no"></iframe> hybrid would be a possibility but for either boat the cost is probably beyond my pocket To be honest this is probably the same for most boaters,so the cost plus the lack of charging infrastructure is going to be the limiting factor in take up. I see Amsterdam is pushing forward with banning all fossil fuel vechiles by 2030 to be fair it easier for a city like Amsterdam where theyhave invested in infrastructure for cycling and a good tram system for decades. newmobility.news/2019/05/03/amsterdam-to-ban-all-fossil-fuel-vehicles-by-2030/?fbclid=IwAR0HwBFsBfh16HK9pVMdHgh1I5qQQSp_d93qGBP75uo1lt9RIHdafy5p4uc
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Post by Clinton Cool on May 6, 2019 8:47:42 GMT
The best way to limit environmental damage, apart from putting a break on growth of course, is to do things locally rather than globally. This won't happen of course, an environment without growth would never be considered, and growth can't be substantial enough if things are done locally.
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Post by bargemast on May 6, 2019 8:56:23 GMT
I think you will find that news report is actually now old news The type of lithium batteries that I and Peterboat use (and now many of the electric cars) are LiFePO4 batteries that do not contain cobalt although many other types of lithium batteries do contain cobalt the argument is not to do with cars Thanks for this info John, I'm sure that any info, even the most recent like from 5 minutes ago is already old news, and has worked out to be completely, or at least partly wrong again. If one has the room and the money for a huge amount of solar-panels and the space and money for the latest and very best batteries (poor children labouring slaves that are of course still employed, maybe not as much as with the cobalt mining, which isn't finished anyway) then it may be a feasable conception. If however you'll have to run a genny to charge these batteries, then it becomes a bit (very much) like fooling yourself. As I have no shore power, and there's a great lack of charging points (for the time being), I will continue the way I've done it up to now. If one day, which surely be long time after I've gone, there are charging points everywhere, and very good "clean" batteries, I may change my ideas and maybe even start a new life . Peter.
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Post by bargemast on May 6, 2019 9:10:39 GMT
I could quote you Kris, as there were endless vertical signs all over. But you're right about Amsterdam (where I was born a couple of years ago), public transport with trams has been very good and they had an early start with it already in 1875 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_AmsterdamAlso bicycle paths are everywhere and are well maintained, many other cities in the Netherlands have extensive bicycle paths too, and even next to many smaller country broads are bicycle paths. In less crowded areas bicycle paths will lead to busstops were schoolchildren and people that have to go to work can safely park their bicycles and hop on a bus that will bring them to the city. This way there's less need for long bicycle rides, and the same go's for cars, there are big free parkings where you can leave your car behind and car-pool with a few more people in one car to the city, or hop on a bus too. If there are enough convenient alternatives it will be so much easier to live without the permanent need for a car. Peter.
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Post by peterboat on May 6, 2019 9:28:34 GMT
It wont happen because it doesnt have to, you will pay ever hifger prices to run the vehicle of your choice, whilst the clever ones will run very cheaply, the money raised from you will help with infrastructure and paying for the wind turbines, so feel free and pay for my cheap motoring, in fact I implore you to If I were you i would do some proper research into the feasibility of wholesale switch to electric vehicles. You seem to equate higher taxation and clean air charges that the green lobby stridently call for with logic, it isnt logical at all. Cheap motoring it might be for now.......only a fool would think that is set to continue. I take it you remember how people were incentivised to go diesel? Much like people are being incentivised to go electric now? How quickly things can change. I have done research, remember I am the one that is has been doing electric for a long while, while we are talking the biggest wind farm in the world is being built of Hull, which will make the wind farm of Kent the second biggest, do you follow my logic here? the infrastructure is already going in, also vehicle charging points are going in both at homes and on the street, things are happening and its electric
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Post by peterboat on May 6, 2019 9:39:53 GMT
I think you will find that news report is actually now old news The type of lithium batteries that I and Peterboat use (and now many of the electric cars) are LiFePO4 batteries that do not contain cobalt although many other types of lithium batteries do contain cobalt the argument is not to do with cars To true John, and the latest batteries are 4 times power dense without the cobalt things are changing very quickly in the battery world
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Post by ianali on May 6, 2019 9:44:29 GMT
If I were you i would do some proper research into the feasibility of wholesale switch to electric vehicles. You seem to equate higher taxation and clean air charges that the green lobby stridently call for with logic, it isnt logical at all. Cheap motoring it might be for now.......only a fool would think that is set to continue. I take it you remember how people were incentivised to go diesel? Much like people are being incentivised to go electric now? How quickly things can change. I have done research, remember I am the one that is has been doing electric for a long while, while we are talking the biggest wind farm in the world is being built of Hull, which will make the wind farm of Kent the second biggest, do you follow my logic here? the infrastructure is already going in, also vehicle charging points are going in both at homes and on the street, things are happening and its electric Have been out cruising since the start of April. I have no memory of having seen an on line charging point so far.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 10:03:30 GMT
I don't understand why they farm wind. There is enough of it already.
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Post by peterboat on May 6, 2019 10:22:26 GMT
I have done research, remember I am the one that is has been doing electric for a long while, while we are talking the biggest wind farm in the world is being built of Hull, which will make the wind farm of Kent the second biggest, do you follow my logic here? the infrastructure is already going in, also vehicle charging points are going in both at homes and on the street, things are happening and its electric Have been out cruising since the start of April. I have no memory of having seen an on line charging point so far. I dont need them and do you think the green lobby and Parliament are bothered about a few boaters? On the plus side the waterways will be relatively empty when diesel is £5 a litre
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Post by kris on May 6, 2019 10:24:40 GMT
I could quote you Kris, as there were endless vertical signs all over. But you're right about Amsterdam (where I was born a couple of years ago), public transport with trams has been very good and they had an early start with it already in 1875 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_AmsterdamAlso bicycle paths are everywhere and are well maintained, many other cities in the Netherlands have extensive bicycle paths too, and even next to many smaller country broads are bicycle paths. In less crowded areas bicycle paths will lead to busstops were schoolchildren and people that have to go to work can safely park their bicycles and hop on a bus that will bring them to the city. This way there's less need for long bicycle rides, and the same go's for cars, there are big free parkings where you can leave your car behind and car-pool with a few more people in one car to the city, or hop on a bus too. If there are enough convenient alternatives it will be so much easier to live without the permanent need for a car. Peter. I got the vertical lines from quoting John, so blame him for them. I've lived in the Netherlands a few times Peter, its always impressed me the way that the transport system is organised. Very refreshing for someone raised in England where all the towns and cities are arranged around motor vechiles. The public spaces are very conducive to living In and not all about commercial enterprise. I belive a lot of it is to do with one architect that I can't remember the name of. I really enjoyed my time in the Netherlands, not least because of all the boats and waterways. i do wonder what they are going to do about all the historic boats with their lovely Diesel engines though.
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Post by kris on May 6, 2019 10:27:55 GMT
Have been out cruising since the start of April. I have no memory of having seen an on line charging point so far. I dont need them and do you think the green lobby and Parliament are bothered about a few boaters? On the plus side the waterways will be relatively empty when diesel is £5 a litre But do you really think they will keep the waterways maintained if they become as empty as you imagine?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 10:41:05 GMT
I read that 'we' will be carbon neutral by 2050, but without any kind of explanation of whether this includes imported products or just home based manufacturing.
It did make me wonder about the effect on the world's economy that all diesel/petrol transport, including narrow boats, will be utterly worthless. Quite a lot of money to just write off.
Rog
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