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Post by naughtyfox on May 6, 2019 16:02:20 GMT
If you opened your eyes you would see its already happening, when Jayne changed electricity suppliers they fitted a car charging point subsidised by the government and part paid for by Jayne. But you have blinkers on Martin you arnt seeing the things that are happening, because you want to run a diesel, and you will be able to, it will just cost you a fortune, and wont be allowed in towns and cities! Charging will be done by when you use the car of course, a little cheap satellite box that lets them know when you use the car, and confirmed by the thousands of number plate recognition cameras to stop fiddling easy peasy My euro 6.2 compliant diesel is the cleanest vehicle i could afford How much did the transmission repair cost, and who paid for it?
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Post by Mr Stabby on May 6, 2019 16:08:20 GMT
Not viable on heavy vehicles though such as articulated lorries. One litre of diesel is the equivalent of 10 kWh. A 300 mile trip uses around 160 litres or 1600 kWh. Batteries give 0.17 kWh per kg. Therefore the truck would need 9.4 tonnes of batteries. Unfortunately you are wrong batteries on test are currently four times more power dense than that and are cheaper than current batteries, so a couple of tons will be whats required changes things doesnt it?
Things are changing, me I just accept it because I know we cant fight it, anyway Tesla seem to think electric semis work and so do the companies that are ordering them Yebbut you just know that the same thing will happen with electric cars as happened with diesel cars, they will be wondrous and environmentally friendly until everyone has got one, and then we will find out that they are killing nuns and kittens in the millions and then we'll have to scrap them all and get whatever the next thing is.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 6, 2019 16:08:56 GMT
It might not be as long as you think though Vince, there are some batteries already in prototype production that have a power density per kilo over 5 times greater than the best current Lithiums. There is massive amounts of money being pumped into battery research and development and there are three or four new types of batteries in development that I know about. I do wonder how many more there are that I haven't heard about. The majority of people will only become interested when electric vehicles are proven and available at a similar price to petrol/diesels. I’d guess 10 to 15 years away. You are all overlooking the obvious - and that is that cars will be done away with and people forced to go on public transport - trains and trolleybuses with overhead wires. No stupid batteries required! We are all 'chipped' already with Passport facial recognition and our mobile phones telling GCHQ and the Police where we are and what we're thinking. There will be cars for our masters, though. To drive around for supervising us.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 16:09:09 GMT
My euro 6.2 compliant diesel is the cleanest vehicle i could afford How much did the transmission repair cost, and who paid for it? Wrong car. That was my last one that was only Euro 5. But as you ask the total cost was around 4K, i paid 1.3k and Vauxhall paid the rest, and so they should have done given it was only 6 months out of warranty and only had 50k on the clock. Not sure what this has to do with a discussion about diesel v electric cars though.
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Post by naughtyfox on May 6, 2019 16:11:51 GMT
Unfortunately you are wrong batteries on test are currently four times more power dense than that and are cheaper than current batteries, so a couple of tons will be whats required changes things doesnt it?
Things are changing, me I just accept it because I know we cant fight it, anyway Tesla seem to think electric semis work and so do the companies that are ordering them they are killing nuns and kittens in the millions Huawei 5G mobile phone network affecting weather satellites. What now of predicting climate change if we can't even predict tomorrow's weather?
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Post by naughtyfox on May 6, 2019 16:12:57 GMT
How much did the transmission repair cost, and who paid for it? Not sure what this has to do with a discussion about diesel v electric cars though. Overall cost of internal combustion engine vehicles vs electric vehicles.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 16:31:02 GMT
Not sure what this has to do with a discussion about diesel v electric cars though. Overall cost of internal combustion engine vehicles vs electric vehicles. Electric vehicles have expensive to replace components too. Some would argue even more so. You are also more tightly bound to the main dealer network and its associated higher prices because lots of non franchise dealers dont have the tech. to diagnose and fix problems, particularly with the propulsion system. Its a bit like owning an iphone, you are tied into the makers eco system. Just about any reasonably competent garage could service and maintain my current car, and if they used the correct parts the warranty would be maintained too. So overall the fact my older diesel shredded its transfer box is not paricularly relevant as an electric vehicle is just as capable of doing similar, or arguably much worse.
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Post by peterboat on May 6, 2019 17:21:18 GMT
Getting back onto subject, I in no way advocate large scale scrapping of diesel vehicles like the video showed, as they become knackered they get scrapped, yes they wont be able to enter certain places, but that is life [petrols will be the same] gradually ICE vehicles will be gone. Their will also be the fuel increases which will pressurise people to get rid as well, along with the projected price decreases of electric vehicles, by 2021 they are expecting parity between ice and electric, so it will be a nobrainer to swop from ICE to electric
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Post by peterboat on May 6, 2019 17:28:48 GMT
Overall cost of internal combustion engine vehicles vs electric vehicles. Electric vehicles have expensive to replace components too. Some would argue even more so. You are also more tightly bound to the main dealer network and its associated higher prices because lots of non franchise dealers dont have the tech. to diagnose and fix problems, particularly with the propulsion system. Its a bit like owning an iphone, you are tied into the makers eco system. Just about any reasonably competent garage could service and maintain my current car, and if they used the correct parts the warranty would be maintained too. So overall the fact my older diesel shredded its transfer box is not paricularly relevant as an electric vehicle is just as capable of doing similar, or arguably much worse. I disagree Martin they are much less moving parts in an electric car to an ICE car so much less to go wrong, brake wear is a fraction of an ICE vehicle because of regen, no real gearbox, often no diffs either if they are 4 wheel drive. Battery wise they have heating and cooling and the motor is cooled as well [which is used for cabin/battery heating] whilst they seem complex they arnt. I would think of large scale closure on indy garages will be on the cards due to the lack of tech and work as electric vehicles require far less servicing
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 17:59:31 GMT
Electric vehicles have expensive to replace components too. Some would argue even more so. You are also more tightly bound to the main dealer network and its associated higher prices because lots of non franchise dealers dont have the tech. to diagnose and fix problems, particularly with the propulsion system. Its a bit like owning an iphone, you are tied into the makers eco system. Just about any reasonably competent garage could service and maintain my current car, and if they used the correct parts the warranty would be maintained too. So overall the fact my older diesel shredded its transfer box is not paricularly relevant as an electric vehicle is just as capable of doing similar, or arguably much worse. I disagree Martin they are much less moving parts in an electric car to an ICE car so much less to go wrong, brake wear is a fraction of an ICE vehicle because of regen, no real gearbox, often no diffs either if they are 4 wheel drive. Battery wise they have heating and cooling and the motor is cooled as well [which is used for cabin/battery heating] whilst they seem complex they arnt. I would think of large scale closure on indy garages will be on the cards due to the lack of tech and work as electric vehicles require far less servicing Longevity of electric cars verses ICE is as yet untested. I suggest we discuss this again in 20 years. The closure of indies who dont generally charge rip off main dealer prices is hardly something positive.
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Post by bargemast on May 6, 2019 18:06:41 GMT
I disagree Martin they are much less moving parts in an electric car to an ICE car so much less to go wrong, brake wear is a fraction of an ICE vehicle because of regen, no real gearbox, often no diffs either if they are 4 wheel drive. Battery wise they have heating and cooling and the motor is cooled as well [which is used for cabin/battery heating] whilst they seem complex they arnt. I would think of large scale closure on indy garages will be on the cards due to the lack of tech and work as electric vehicles require far less servicing Longevity of electric cars verses ICE is as yet untested. I suggest we discuss this again in 20 years.
The closure of indies who dont generally charge rip off main dealer prices is hardly something positive. In that case don't count on my participation in this discussion anymore I don't care if the oven will be fired on diesel or if it will be an electric one. Peter.
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Post by ianali on May 6, 2019 18:22:20 GMT
Getting back onto subject, I in no way advocate large scale scrapping of diesel vehicles like the video showed, as they become knackered they get scrapped, yes they wont be able to enter certain places, but that is life [petrols will be the same] gradually ICE vehicles will be gone. Their will also be the fuel increases which will pressurise people to get rid as well, along with the projected price decreases of electric vehicles, by 2021 they are expecting parity between ice and electric, so it will be a nobrainer to swop from ICE to electric Only two years? I’d best get burning some petrol. I will miss ICE.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 18:31:33 GMT
Getting back onto subject, I in no way advocate large scale scrapping of diesel vehicles like the video showed, as they become knackered they get scrapped, yes they wont be able to enter certain places, but that is life [petrols will be the same] gradually ICE vehicles will be gone. Their will also be the fuel increases which will pressurise people to get rid as well, along with the projected price decreases of electric vehicles, by 2021 they are expecting parity between ice and electric, so it will be a nobrainer to swop from ICE to electric That entirely depends on your motoring requirements. Popping to the shops in a glorified milk float wont suit everybody im afraid.
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Post by peterboat on May 6, 2019 19:37:17 GMT
Getting back onto subject, I in no way advocate large scale scrapping of diesel vehicles like the video showed, as they become knackered they get scrapped, yes they wont be able to enter certain places, but that is life [petrols will be the same] gradually ICE vehicles will be gone. Their will also be the fuel increases which will pressurise people to get rid as well, along with the projected price decreases of electric vehicles, by 2021 they are expecting parity between ice and electric, so it will be a nobrainer to swop from ICE to electric That entirely depends on your motoring requirements. Popping to the shops in a glorified milk float wont suit everybody im afraid. Fastest accelerating production car in the world is electric Tesla roadster 1.9 seconds some milk float!! but when have you ever let facts get in the way?
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Post by peterboat on May 6, 2019 19:38:49 GMT
I disagree Martin they are much less moving parts in an electric car to an ICE car so much less to go wrong, brake wear is a fraction of an ICE vehicle because of regen, no real gearbox, often no diffs either if they are 4 wheel drive. Battery wise they have heating and cooling and the motor is cooled as well [which is used for cabin/battery heating] whilst they seem complex they arnt. I would think of large scale closure on indy garages will be on the cards due to the lack of tech and work as electric vehicles require far less servicing Longevity of electric cars verses ICE is as yet untested. I suggest we discuss this again in 20 years. The closure of indies who dont generally charge rip off main dealer prices is hardly something positive. ICEs wont be around in 10 years so it dont matter
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