|
Post by kris on Jul 27, 2019 15:25:43 GMT
Have you been a naughty boy again Nick? Most people don't respond well to pompous idiots who are full of their own self importance.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 15:27:18 GMT
Jul 27, 2019 at 4:13pm Telemachus said: Dear CRT Northwest,
I would be grateful if you could pass this on to the CRT member of staff responsible for volunteering.
We embarked up the Wigan flight this morning at 8:30 in company with another boat whose crew had only bought her 24 hrs before - very inexperienced! Nevertheless we made good progress up the flight and we were entering and exiting the locks in a synchronised way - which of course is the best way to do it. Everyone was working as an efficient team.
That was, until at the (roughly) middle lock, we encountered the volunteer lock keepers helping boats down. The descending boats vacated the lock and we started to enter. Just as we were approaching the lock mouth, one of the volunteers suddenly appeared on the lock bridge, shouting “STOP” in a loud commanding voice and holding his palm up in a stop signal.
At this point I will say that it is my understanding that it is CRT’s policy that volunteer lock keepers are not in charge and should not issue orders. They should provide assistance when requested but should not force themselves on boaters. The boaters remain in charge at all times.
Consequently I ignored this shouted order. However the steerer of the other boat, having only got his boat the day before, complied, and thus chaos ensued. I informed the volunteer in no uncertain terms that they should not issue commands and not interfere with our boat’s operation. He didn’t like that.
It transpired that he felt taking two boats into the lock simultaneously was a bad idea (even though it is in fact best practice) because one of the gates tended to stick a bit when fully open.
To make his point, he and his colleague then stood by smirking and watching whilst the lady from the other boat struggled to close the gate, which she was unable to do. Our crew were still at the previous lock and it was a minute or two before they arrived - just before they arrived the volunteers made a great show of heaving and jerking the gate to close it - bad practice, gates should be operated by continuous pressure, not by yanking them repeatedly. It was clearly a “punishment” metered out to the lady from the other boat, as retribution for me telling them not to interfere. Stupid, because I had no connection with this lady apart from sharing the locks with them, and I felt it was nasty behaviour.
I told them that we didn’t want their help and they should help some of the other boats, which they then did.
After that unpleasantness, we left the volunteers behind and everything went smoothly until the top lock. As you will know, there is currently a major restriction on the Wigan flight in that the top and bottom locks’ paddles are padlocked and only open 8:30-9:30 and 12:30 to 13:30. This is a major inconvenience to boaters - allegedly in the interests of saving water despite the prolonged periods of heavy rain this spring summer. But it is what it is.
However, having restricted use of the flight so severely, I think it only reasonable that CRT stick to these advertised times. So it was annoying to find the paddles still locked at 13:30 and we were unable to proceed, just as the heavy rain started. The volunteer “in charge” finally ambled up as slowly as possible and opened the padlocks on the ground paddles at 13:45. It was quite obvious from his body language that he wanted me to know that he held the power and I didn’t. He would have struggled to do it any slower.
This is the trouble with some volunteers, they think they have power to wield, and enjoy doing so. For balance I will say that of course I have encountered many volunteers who are not like that and are very helpful. However CRT seem unable to weed out the insecure “little hitlers” looking for power, from the people who genuinely want to be helpful.
As a consequence, I generally prefer not to encounter volunteers. Which is a shame.
So in summary and putting aside the “human factors” I mentioned above, my complaint is that:
1/ Volunteers should not issue orders to boaters and generally carry on as if they were in charge.
2/ When CRT puts a major time restriction on the opening of lock flight etc these times should be stuck to. There was absolutely no reason why the flight could not have been unlocked on time had the volunteer chosen to do so, and this is the problem with giving volunteers responsibility for such things.
Further by way of balance the chap who was not in charge was very pleasant and helpful after we exited the top lock, explaining to my partner where the services/rubbish disposal etc were. And, well “above and beyond the call of duty”, when he discovered that we were struggling to get a taxi to take my in-laws to the train station, offered to drive them there himself. Absolutely fantastic. Thank you!
This whole issue started with the volunteer shouting inappropriate orders to me. Had that not happened I’m sure the encounter would have been quite different. It is something CRT struggles to get right with its volunteers. We have been assured that it is part of their training that they are not in control and should ask before offering help, but it doesn’t seem to stick.
Until CRT gets this right, experienced boaters will continue to come into conflict with volunteer lock keepers and such boaters will be increasingly resentful of them.
Kind Regards
Nick Norman
Well done. I had one tell me they don't help widebeam a while back. Me being me, I told him "to fuck off then". I knew he couldn't complain after his behaviour.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 15:29:08 GMT
They shouted stop at you and they were late to open the padlock, feel you are being a snowflake here.
|
|
|
Post by kris on Jul 27, 2019 15:30:58 GMT
Joking aside if I meet vol lockies like this, I just politely tell them I don't want their help. I had one this year shouting orders at me as I approached a double side by side lock. He was trying to direct me into the pen that I know is too narrow for my boat. So f I had followed his orders I would have got stuck n the gates. He stood there sulking while I operated the lock on my own. After telling him I didn't want his help.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 27, 2019 15:32:44 GMT
It was clearly a “punishment” metered out to the lady from the other boat Tsk, don't they teach the difference between "meted" and "metered" at proper school? But leaving aside your appalling and inexcusable mangling of the English language, I generally agree with your points.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jul 27, 2019 15:38:43 GMT
It was clearly a “punishment” metered out to the lady from the other boat Tsk, don't they teach the difference between "meted" and "metered" at proper school? But leaving aside your appalling and inexcusable mangling of the English language, I generally agree with your points. I am fully aware of ... how much you enjoy correcting me, and so it would be mean of me not to include the occasional deliberate mistake in order to give you a fleeting feeling of superiority. I am just such a nice guy!
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jul 27, 2019 15:39:33 GMT
They shouted stop at you and they were late to open the padlock, feel you are being a snowflake here. Thin end of the wedge matey. If we tolerate that, what will be next? They will come for your children.
|
|
|
Post by JohnV on Jul 27, 2019 15:40:36 GMT
a word springs to mind bugger Nick posted again too bloody quick
|
|
|
Post by naughtyfox on Jul 27, 2019 15:41:46 GMT
Thames Lock Keepers could check that boats are ready to go down BEFORE opening the paddles, and also check the boats as they leave the locks. Somewhat lacklustre service.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 15:42:26 GMT
I do feel a little sympathy for Nick, it does sound a little first world problems but to be fair, we all managed to get about before the volunteer brigade were common. EA Anglia region have started to introduce them on the Great Ouse. environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2018/06/07/helping-hands-volunteers-making-a-difference-on-our-waterways/Talk of having them at St Ives, that will upset the Jones armarda and visiting boaters of the OVRC - one of the busiest locks during the summerthat needs little to fray tempers as it is 🙄🕵️🤦♂️
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 15:44:35 GMT
They shouted stop at you and they were late to open the padlock, feel you are being a snowflake here. Thin end of the wedge matey. If we tolerate that, what will be next? They will come for your children. James D Bradfield agrees with you. Are you a closet Manics fan?
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 27, 2019 15:48:18 GMT
I generally find volockies are nowhere near as aware of lock operation as the average boater but then that's probably understandable. The first question they should ask is "do you require assistance?" and if the boater replies in the affirmative the second question should be "How do you want the paddles doing?".
Generally they are fine, there is just the the odd one now and again who seems to think he is in some position of authority.
|
|
|
Post by Telemachus on Jul 27, 2019 15:50:36 GMT
I do feel a little sympathy for Nick, it does sound a little first world problems but to be fair, we all managed to get about before the volunteer brigade were common. EA Anglia region have started to introduce them on the Great Ouse. environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2018/06/07/helping-hands-volunteers-making-a-difference-on-our-waterways/Talk of having them at St Ives, that will upset the Jones armarda and visiting boaters of the OVRC - one of the busiest locks during the summerthat needs little to fray tempers as it is 🙄🕵️🤦♂️ Of course it is a first world problem (even setting aside the fact that third world countries generally don’t have canals for leisure use!). But a lot of the fun of canals is the locks. We like to work them efficiently etc. We don’t like being told what to do by some numpty with 5 mins experience of the canals who has never owned a boat. Unfortunately we have had several cases of volunteers forcing their will on us recently. If we don’t fight back by complaining, it isn’t going to get any better. I can tolerate the patronising advice such as “Oooh best not to get too close to the front of the lock / best not to open the paddles too quickly because the bat might get sucked forwards” etc. But when commands are given that disrupt our progress, I will resist.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 15:55:02 GMT
I do feel a little sympathy for Nick, it does sound a little first world problems but to be fair, we all managed to get about before the volunteer brigade were common. EA Anglia region have started to introduce them on the Great Ouse. environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2018/06/07/helping-hands-volunteers-making-a-difference-on-our-waterways/Talk of having them at St Ives, that will upset the Jones armarda and visiting boaters of the OVRC - one of the busiest locks during the summerthat needs little to fray tempers as it is 🙄🕵️🤦♂️ Of course it is a first world problem (even setting aside the fact that third world countries generally don’t have canals for leisure use!). But a lot of the fun of canals is the locks. We like to work them efficiently etc. We don’t like being told what to do by some numpty with 5 mins experience of the canals who has never owned a boat. Unfortunately we have had several cases of volunteers forcing their will on us recently. If we don’t fight back by complaining, it isn’t going to get any better. I can tolerate the patronising advice such as “Oooh best not to get too close to the front of the lock / best not to open the paddles too quickly because the bat might get sucked forwards” etc. But when commands are given that disrupt our progress, I will resist. I hate other boaters getting involved in our locking - leave alone a person with too much time on their hands and no bloody boat!
|
|
|
Post by Mr Stabby on Jul 27, 2019 15:55:08 GMT
Tsk, don't they teach the difference between "meted" and "metered" at proper school? But leaving aside your appalling and inexcusable mangling of the English language, I generally agree with your points. I am fully aware of ... how much you enjoy correcting me, and so it would be mean of me not to include the occasional deliberate mistake in order to give you a fleeting feeling of superiority. I am just such a nice guy! Your signature just pleads for you to be hauled over the coals over even the slightest error in grammar or spelling. So I'm equally happy to oblige.
|
|