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Post by JohnV on Oct 14, 2019 8:28:20 GMT
LAs are something that has to changed every 1 to 2 years depending on your charging routine, Trojans if looked after will last longer and Tractions longer still. JohnV and I have LifePo4s looked after I am sure they will be the last batteries we ever buy and they are light, it all depends on what you want to pay
LA need changing every 1 or 2 years? That’s far from my experience and not what most other boaters tell me. I’d say more like 4 to 8 years. It does depend hugely on how they are used/abused My original 24 volt battery bank was 2, 140 Ah Delkor batteries that were supplied with the main engine as part of the package. They had a very easy life as they spent 90% of their time attached to a high quality multistage charger on shore power (during the fitting out of the boat) they were used for engine and domestic supplies including at later stages of the fit out a few short trips and trials. Because their capacity was large compared to the amount of use, they were never worked hard and as the capacity decreased over the years it was not noticeable until it was vastly reduced ......... in total they lasted 12 years (I remember in very early days on CWDF asking Gibbo if he had any suggestions for upgrading .... he said that they liked whatever I was doing so leave it alone ..... they lasted a further 3 years) However at the same time as the batteries were expiring the battery charger also gave up the ghost and the fit out had reached a much more power hungry stage (wife/washing machine/tumble dryer/dishwasher/hairdryer etc) The new installation was 4, 130 Ah Varta batteries and 2 Vetus automatic chargers (each in charge of half the bank) these only lasted 6 years and have now been replaced with ....... LiFePO4 (4, 115Ah) with the Vetus chargers re programmed for them plus 1Kw of solar panels. My anchor winch batteries ( 2, 140 Ah lorry batteries) are now 9 years old and have also lost a lot of their capacity and are due for replacement ..... again though, they have had a very easy life, probably only being used a couple of times a year with 75/100 Amps drawn for a few minutes then trickle charged back up.
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Post by peterboat on Oct 14, 2019 8:29:26 GMT
LAs are something that has to changed every 1 to 2 years depending on your charging routine, Trojans if looked after will last longer and Tractions longer still. JohnV and I have LifePo4s looked after I am sure they will be the last batteries we ever buy and they are light, it all depends on what you want to pay
Thanks for the advice, and I have a feeling that it might well be all you need to know on a practical basis. The question originally posed asserted that (in ideal conditions) two 110ah batteries would last longer (i.e continue to function as expected before replacement is needed) than one 220ah item because the draw of current has less load over each item (or some such). Personally I didn't interpret th e point as relating to the duration of useful output per cycle. It seems that such a point is perhaps quite theoretical. I've found a few sources for further reading
Peter, here's a question I expect you have contemplated: how many amps can you safely pump into a battery when charging? I realise the question is a bit nebulous but any comments appreciated. Also, whats the theoretical maximum output of you solar array and how much ah capacity do you have? Thanks.LifePo4s will take anything thats thrown at them amps wise, they really can take amps, My solar when all switched to domestic will hand out 80 amps which is all the controller can handle this is at 24 volts though. The drive system is 72 volts and as yet I have no idea what amps the solar can feed into it at the moment. The domestic bank is 24 volts and the AHs is 420, the drive is best measured in KWHs 34.68 its 30 x 36 volt batteries
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Post by peterboat on Oct 14, 2019 8:32:29 GMT
LAs are something that has to changed every 1 to 2 years depending on your charging routine, Trojans if looked after will last longer and Tractions longer still. JohnV and I have LifePo4s looked after I am sure they will be the last batteries we ever buy and they are light, it all depends on what you want to pay
LA need changing every 1 or 2 years? That’s far from my experience and not what most other boaters tell me. I’d say more like 4 to 8 years. Ian you clearly look after your batteries plenty of others dont, all it takes is a bad winter and you could easily destroy them in 6 months due to poor charging regime!
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Post by peterboat on Oct 14, 2019 8:35:29 GMT
LA need changing every 1 or 2 years? That’s far from my experience and not what most other boaters tell me. I’d say more like 4 to 8 years. It does depend hugely on how they are used/abused My original 24 volt battery bank was 2, 140 Ah Delkor batteries that were supplied with the main engine as part of the package. They had a very easy life as they spent 90% of their time attached to a high quality multistage charger on shore power (during the fitting out of the boat) they were used for engine and domestic supplies including at later stages of the fit out a few short trips and trials. Because their capacity was large compared to the amount of use, they were never worked hard and as the capacity decreased over the years it was not noticeable until it was vastly reduced ......... in total they lasted 12 years (I remember in very early days on CWDF asking Gibbo if he had any suggestions for upgrading .... he said that they liked whatever I was doing so leave it alone ..... they lasted a further 3 years) However at the same time as the batteries were expiring the battery charger also gave up the ghost and the fit out had reached a much more power hungry stage (wife/washing machine/tumble dryer/dishwasher/hairdryer etc) The new installation was 4, 130 Ah Varta batteries and 2 Vetus automatic chargers (each in charge of half the bank) these only lasted 6 years and have now been replaced with ....... LiFePO4 (4, 115Ah) with the Vetus chargers re programmed for them plus 1Kw of solar panels. My anchor winch batteries ( 2, 140 Ah lorry batteries) are now 9 years old and have also lost a lot of their capacity and are due for replacement ..... again though, they have had a very easy life, probably only being used a couple of times a year with 75/100 Amps drawn for a few minutes then trickle charged back up. My Valence batteries are 138ah John I dont know about yours?
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Post by JohnV on Oct 14, 2019 8:37:50 GMT
It does depend hugely on how they are used/abused My original 24 volt battery bank was 2, 140 Ah Delkor batteries that were supplied with the main engine as part of the package. They had a very easy life as they spent 90% of their time attached to a high quality multistage charger on shore power (during the fitting out of the boat) they were used for engine and domestic supplies including at later stages of the fit out a few short trips and trials. Because their capacity was large compared to the amount of use, they were never worked hard and as the capacity decreased over the years it was not noticeable until it was vastly reduced ......... in total they lasted 12 years (I remember in very early days on CWDF asking Gibbo if he had any suggestions for upgrading .... he said that they liked whatever I was doing so leave it alone ..... they lasted a further 3 years) However at the same time as the batteries were expiring the battery charger also gave up the ghost and the fit out had reached a much more power hungry stage (wife/washing machine/tumble dryer/dishwasher/hairdryer etc) The new installation was 4, 130 Ah Varta batteries and 2 Vetus automatic chargers (each in charge of half the bank) these only lasted 6 years and have now been replaced with ....... LiFePO4 (4, 115Ah) with the Vetus chargers re programmed for them plus 1Kw of solar panels. My anchor winch batteries ( 2, 140 Ah lorry batteries) are now 9 years old and have also lost a lot of their capacity and are due for replacement ..... again though, they have had a very easy life, probably only being used a couple of times a year with 75/100 Amps drawn for a few minutes then trickle charged back up. My Valence batteries are 138ah John I dont know about yours? I thought he told me 115 Ah ...... but it was only verbal and I have been known to miss-remember things
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Post by ianali on Oct 14, 2019 8:51:26 GMT
LA need changing every 1 or 2 years? That’s far from my experience and not what most other boaters tell me. I’d say more like 4 to 8 years. Ian you clearly look after your batteries plenty of others dont, all it takes is a bad winter and you could easily destroy them in 6 months due to poor charging regime! I don’t think many people change LA after 6 months, obviously some will. We cruise a fair bit, have some solar so batteries are charged a reasonable amount. I still believe the vast majority of boaters get way more than 2 years use from LA though. Obviously your batteries will last longer. My batteries cost me an average of about £90 a year. This is my experience of the last ten years boating. I don’t believe yours will beat that cost wise.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 9:31:33 GMT
I was chatting recently to liveaboard boaters who have (after about ten years living aboard) recently gone the full solar, lithium route.
They are massively impressed with their new lifestyle, and on the day we met up they'd just cruised for five hours away from Cropredy having spent ten days moored there.
That five hour cruise was the only engine running they'd done for the ten days despite using the washer, tv etc.
However they did say that the investment cost was akin to having a conservatory built onto a house, but as they lived aboard it was more about the lifestyle change than the cost.
Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 14, 2019 9:50:05 GMT
Have to agree ianali . My current service batteries were fitted in 2012, but I'll be replacing them in January. The fridge batteries (2x110's) only last two years, but we know the drain the fridge puts on them. Rog But then you don't have a TV, but you do have a large box of candles. What exactly do your service batteries service?
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 14, 2019 9:55:07 GMT
Fridges are the killer, I'm half on the look out for a big gas one. Other than the fridge I think one 110ah would do us. But then again gas fridges are incredibly inefficient. Obviously buying a lot of energy to run them (in the form of gas cylinders), is not particularly inconvenient but I would imagine that over the course of a couple of years, a lot more is spent on gas than on a set of batteries, especially if you are cruising a lot and thus recharging the batteries for very little cost (over and above the cost of propelling the boat).
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Post by ianali on Oct 14, 2019 9:55:55 GMT
Have to agree ianali . My current service batteries were fitted in 2012, but I'll be replacing them in January. The fridge batteries (2x110's) only last two years, but we know the drain the fridge puts on them. Rog But then you don't have a TV, but you do have a large box of candles. What exactly do your service batteries service? We have a TV and it’s smarter than yours 😀
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 9:59:16 GMT
Thanks for the advice, and I have a feeling that it might well be all you need to know on a practical basis. The question originally posed asserted that (in ideal conditions) two 110ah batteries would last longer (i.e continue to function as expected before replacement is needed) than one 220ah item because the draw of current has less load over each item (or some such). Personally I didn't interpret th e point as relating to the duration of useful output per cycle. It seems that such a point is perhaps quite theoretical. I've found a few sources for further reading
Peter, here's a question I expect you have contemplated: how many amps can you safely pump into a battery when charging? I realise the question is a bit nebulous but any comments appreciated. Also, whats the theoretical maximum output of you solar array and how much ah capacity do you have? Thanks.LifePo4s will take anything thats thrown at them amps wise, they really can take amps, My solar when all switched to domestic will hand out 80 amps which is all the controller can handle this is at 24 volts though. The drive system is 72 volts and as yet I have no idea what amps the solar can feed into it at the moment. The domestic bank is 24 volts and the AHs is 420, the drive is best measured in KWHs 34.68 its 30 x 36 volt batteries
Thanks Peter, again helpful. More questions: is it true that a 24v battery can accept a larger amp rate (amperes?) than a 12v batt...? And if so does it follow that a 72v batt has an even greater capacity to accept a stronger charge rate? Also, is it a ridiculous notion to charge and store capacity in (say) 24v then step it down to a 12v system?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 10:00:16 GMT
We do have a tv ... we don't routinely watch it. No qualifications were included in the statement about battery life, so I didn't include any in my response. As ianali said, the majority of boaters we meet have LA batteries and expect to change them every two to four years (much longer for starter battery). Of course you not agreeing, whilst deeply distressing to me, is not essential Rog
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Post by Telemachus on Oct 14, 2019 10:12:29 GMT
We do have a tv ... we don't routinely watch it. No qualifications were included in the statement about battery life, so I didn't include any in my response. As ianali said, the majority of boaters we meet have LA batteries and expect to change them every two to four years (much longer for starter battery). Of course you not agreeing, whilst deeply distressing to me, is not essential Rog HaHa well sorry for the distress. But actually I am not disagreeing with you. Just pointing out that a big factor in battery life is how they are used and what is expected from them. The boat we used to borrow had an old-fashioned sort of electrical system, no inverter. A small saloon ( it had 2 bedrooms, unusual for a 57' boat) and hence evening lighting was 1 or 2 lights, and anyway it was only used in the summer. The owner used to change the domestic batteries every 6 years or so. But long before that, they were way down on capacity. But it didn't really matter because there was no easy way to measure it and the expected ability to supply charge was minimal, so even when they were at 50% capacity they were still perfectly adequate for the job in hand. It was only when they got to ~25% capacity and the lights would go dim in the evening, would he replace them.
When we got our boat we had every power-hungry gadget and good battery monitoring. When we became unable to use the electric kettle, toaster and Nespresso machine in the morning I got new batteries. They didn't last long either so eventually I went for the Trojans which, 6 years later, still have their rated capacity.
So for us, having good batteries is important. For folk who only use their batteries to run the igniter to light their candles, and anyway go to bed at sunset, any old rubbish is fine.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 10:17:03 GMT
What !
What's wrong with my lucifers ?
And you can have a lot of fun on an early night ... just saying.
Rog
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Post by Clinton Cool on Oct 14, 2019 10:46:18 GMT
Fridges are the killer, I'm half on the look out for a big gas one. Other than the fridge I think one 110ah would do us. I have 105ah Trojan, gas fridge. It's never been below around 70% in the 3 years I've had it and still behaves like it's brand new. Gas fridges are a little expensive to run, mine uses a 13KG bottle in around 6-7 weeks but counter that with reduced engine running/ servicing/ wear, not to mention noise and inconvenience to yourself and others, Id suggest a gas fridge is a much better option for a liveaboard boater.
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