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Post by lollygagger on Dec 28, 2019 17:30:58 GMT
The gold wasn't worth having Obviously the people who bought it thought it was, and you would have to say that history proved them right. compared to the national debt, a piffling amount?
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 17:35:52 GMT
Labour being willing to sell the gold surely throws into doubt their anti-semitism issues does it not.
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Post by Mr Stabby on Dec 28, 2019 17:46:09 GMT
Obviously the people who bought it thought it was, and you would have to say that history proved them right. compared to the national debt, a piffling amount? When the value of any commodity is at an all-time low it never makes sense to sell it, rather it is better to wait for a more favourable time to sell.
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Post by thebfg on Dec 29, 2019 9:03:17 GMT
Sorry John but that's just Tory crap. The gold wasn't worth having, the economy did great under labour and they spent the money on services for all plus debt so the common man would see the good of some of it as opposed to the Tory's back pockets. I'm no labour supporter but you are as deluded as they are! Services for all? Go on, what useful services did we gain?
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 29, 2019 9:37:32 GMT
Sorry John but that's just Tory crap. The gold wasn't worth having, the economy did great under labour and they spent the money on services for all plus debt so the common man would see the good of some of it as opposed to the Tory's back pockets. I'm no labour supporter but you are as deluded as they are! Services for all? Go on, what useful services did we gain? I think you are too young to remember how run down schools and hospitals had become before Blair.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 29, 2019 10:25:44 GMT
Services for all? Go on, what useful services did we gain? I think you are too young to remember how run down schools and hospitals had become before Blair. but if they were so damned clever, why the hell were we broke and in deep recession when they were kicked out ?
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 29, 2019 10:39:44 GMT
I think you are too young to remember how run down schools and hospitals had become before Blair. but if they were so damned clever, why the hell were we broke and in deep recession when they were kicked out ? The whole world was! And yes, they spent the money. You think they should have saved it up for the Tories to share out? That's FPTP party political government for you!
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 29, 2019 10:44:05 GMT
While I'm being magnanimous, does anyone really think that had the Tories been in government they... a) would not have been involved in Iraq. b) would have saved the UK from the effects of a world recession.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 29, 2019 11:21:29 GMT
While I'm being magnanimous, does anyone really think that had the Tories been in government they... a) would not have been involved in Iraq. b) would have saved the UK from the effects of a world recession. a) impossible to say, but just maybe they would have listened more to their own employee (Dr Kelly) rather than to the staff of a POTUS with whom they were so enamoured b) As there was no indication that the Conservatives would have been making such drastic alterations to the rules governing allowable exposure by British Financial institutions then certainly the effects could have been lessened ..... When there is a world recession, no country is immune to the effects but the the banking institutions should have been able to ameliorate some of the effects as happened in countries not so badly exposed (because of stricter legislation that was similar to that in Britain pre Gordon Brown)
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 29, 2019 11:50:36 GMT
The point I was attempting to make was that we look back and blame governments for things that are beyond their control.
Iraq is a great example and the pinnacle of most peoples pile of "he was ok until..." We have no idea what pressure the USA put the UK government under and so have no idea whether events would have unfolded differently under a Conservative government. My semi-educated guess is that it was politically impossible for the UK not to join in and once that bridge is crossed, the current PM has two choices of presentation - whinge and do it anyway or strut your stuff.
The whole WOMD débâcle was transparent to the entire country yet still that charade ran it's course with almost every MP on board and keeping a straight face. All sides of the house supported the action and knew the case was fiction. I think that would have happened whoever was in government.
Likewise the recession and banking law. Had we not freed up the banks, the city of London money that props up our economy would have gone elsewhere. Either party would have done the same and again it had Conservative support.
I had my biggest ever tax break under Labour, an extra £10k free from corporation tax. This was typical Tory behaviour and I'd giess they supported that too.
This is my neutral's view, I'm not a party political person.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 29, 2019 12:39:58 GMT
I think you are right in your first line
Often the roots of a problem lie deeply hidden at the time and it is only with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight that they become totally clear and whoever the government is, when it hits the fan, it might not be totally their fault.
One that seems to be appearing at the moment is the cockup that seems to be happening with HS2 It seems that it is going the way of many government projects in the past, what was the saying? an elephant is a mouse built by a government committee ?
One of the main proponents of the plan has just let rip on the way it is being managed in an article in the (shhhhh say it quietly) the MOS He is suggesting that the whole management team should get the boot ..... makes interesting reading about what happens to a major project when civil servants get involved.
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 29, 2019 13:40:50 GMT
I think you are right in your first line Often the roots of a problem lie deeply hidden at the time and it is only with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight that they become totally clear and whoever the government is, when it hits the fan, it might not be totally their fault. One that seems to be appearing at the moment is the cockup that seems to be happening with HS2 It seems that it is going the way of many government projects in the past, what was the saying? an elephant is a mouse built by a government committee ? One of the main proponents of the plan has just let rip on the way it is being managed in an article in the (shhhhh say it quietly) the MOS He is suggesting that the whole management team should get the boot ..... makes interesting reading about what happens to a major project when civil servants get involved. It should be cancelled. It's a pretentious thing for an economy that won't benefit from it. The rest of our railways are a shambles of cancelled services, over crowding or barely used due to the excessive price. If I want to go to Wigan 10 miles away it's £1.50/mile, no discounts available. That needs fixing first.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 29, 2019 14:30:51 GMT
The article was saying that concentrating on the Southern end is stupid, they should be starting with high speed interconnections in the North.
Liverpool/Manchester/Sheffield/Leeds then on to Birmingham and Souyh as a second/third stage
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Post by thebfg on Dec 31, 2019 12:14:59 GMT
Services for all? Go on, what useful services did we gain? I think you are too young to remember how run down schools and hospitals had become before Blair. Just before we move on. I was at school pre Blair and my school was clean, tidy and fit for purpose. In fact schools probably went down hill after I left. Our local council is rebuilding nearly all local schools after tests of neglect.
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Post by Andyberg on Dec 31, 2019 12:31:47 GMT
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