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Post by carthorse on Dec 18, 2019 22:43:58 GMT
There’s no getting away from it I’m feeling the chill this winter. The central heating on my boat which is the old thin upright Alde gas boiler with some fin rads takes an age to heat up and the last rad in the circuit never gets hot. It also takes so long to heat the water in the equally ancient badly insulated Calorifier in the engine bay that I’ve stopped bothering to turn it on and have been using a small oil filled electric rad in the bedroom to take the chill off and boilin* a kettle for hot water.
It’s too late this year, but I’m planning on ripping out the whole system and starting again. So my question is out of all the common diesel heating systems which do those in the know recommend?
it’s got to heat a 58ft boat with four rads and a Calorifier.
(I’m hoping this won’t be as controversial as the cassette vs pump out bog debate)
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Post by thebfg on Dec 19, 2019 8:02:25 GMT
Your in luck, there are some knowledgeable people here on heating.
We loved out webasto, eventually after getting rid of the timer, that we just couldent fatham.
57ft and 4 rads, worked fine.
Topped up with a diesel bubble stove with back boiler.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 19, 2019 8:11:13 GMT
Bubble PJ (pressure jet) in engine room 6 radiators, underfloor in wheelhouse and calorifier cauliflower, 66 foot wide beam (very wide  ) installed 4 years ago very pleased edit to add .... two other boats on the moorings I had at Benfleet had Bubble stoves both loved them. One was a largish yoghurt pot and his didn't have a boiler. The other was a dutch barge about 70 foot his ran I think 6 rads plus calorifier ...... both had had them for several years. The stoves are drip feed and don't use electricity (the PJ does require 240v) except for the pump. I went for the PJ as I have a large woodburner in the saloon that I would loathe to part with also lots of room in the engine room. Before buying I took a trip to see them and was very impressed by them and their business. Lots of good advice freely given. |
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Post by samsam on Dec 19, 2019 8:27:23 GMT
From experience with other peoples boats, Webasto every time. You need the electrical power to drive it remember, a lot of current to fire up.
But I still consider a solid fuel burner with proper gravity fed radiators is the ideal way to heat a boat. All mine work well on 15mm pipe. No electrics at all.
Your horizontal? calorifier under the rear deck could be a problem though getting gravity to work it. Pumping a solid fuel burner is a safety no-no for me though some folks do.
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Post by JohnV on Dec 19, 2019 8:42:38 GMT
Pumping a solid fuel burner is a safety no-no for me though some folks do. On that point ..... it depends. My Rayburn had a pump to circulate through the radiators that were not capable of thermo syphoning but the underfloor heating in the wheelhouse and the galley calorifier (in the return feed) formed an adequate heat dump if the power/pump failed |
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 19, 2019 9:02:05 GMT
From experience with other peoples boats, Webasto every time. You need the electrical power to drive it remember, a lot of current to fire up. But I still consider a solid fuel burner with proper gravity fed radiators is the ideal way to heat a boat. All mine work well on 15mm pipe. No electrics at all. Your horizontal? calorifier under the rear deck could be a problem though getting gravity to work it. Pumping a solid fuel burner is a safety no-no for me though some folks do. What model is your stove? I just fitted one with a back boiler that struggles even heating one towel rail. |
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Post by Telemachus on Dec 19, 2019 9:30:34 GMT
There’s no getting away from it I’m feeling the chill this winter. The central heating on my boat which is the old thin upright Alde gas boiler with some fin rads takes an age to heat up and the last rad in the circuit never gets hot. It also takes so long to heat the water in the equally ancient badly insulated Calorifier in the engine bay that I’ve stopped bothering to turn it on and have been using a small oil filled electric rad in the bedroom to take the chill off and boilin* a kettle for hot water. It’s too late this year, but I’m planning on ripping out the whole system and starting again. So my question is out of all the common diesel heating systems which do those in the know recommend? it’s got to heat a 58ft boat with four rads and a Calorifier. (I’m hoping this won’t be as controversial as the cassette vs pump out bog debate) No I don’t think it’s controversial. Alde gas boilers are fairly low output and gas is expensive. They do however have one advantage which is low electrical power consumption. If you go for an evaporative heater like the three brands you mention, the electrical needs are probably at least 5 times as great - 6 or 7 amps whilst running, and 25A or so when firing up. they are also not particularly reliable for extended use, and can be noisy. I therefore don’t think these types of heater are suitable as the main source of heat - just as a backup or for occasional use on a cold spring/autumn morning/evening. IMO a solid fuel stove is the best bet for the main source of heating, though depending on your layout and where the stove can be located, it may not heat the entire boat. But it is reliable and needs no electrical power. Stoves with back boilers seem a bit problematic unless the plumbing was designed for gravity circulation from the outset. There are other types of diesel heater - drip feed ones which need no electrical power, except perhaps to run a circulation pump. People who have these seem to like them. And pressure jet ones, which are more like a house central heating boiler. Expensive and do need a moderate amount of electrical power. We have a solid fuel stove, and an evaporative heater with radiators as a backup (Mikuni, though it’s no longer made) and this seems to me to be a good combination. If you want to buy a new evaporative heater these days, it’s webasto. |
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Post by samsam on Dec 19, 2019 9:39:12 GMT
From experience with other peoples boats, Webasto every time. You need the electrical power to drive it remember, a lot of current to fire up. But I still consider a solid fuel burner with proper gravity fed radiators is the ideal way to heat a boat. All mine work well on 15mm pipe. No electrics at all. Your horizontal? calorifier under the rear deck could be a problem though getting gravity to work it. Pumping a solid fuel burner is a safety no-no for me though some folks do. What model is your stove? I just fitted one with a back boiler that struggles even heating one towel rail. Just a Squirrel, does 3 radiators with thermostatic valves, calorifier and a 15mm pipe loop around the saloon, 50 ft narrowboat. Most of the time with fuel saver plates in. All gravity. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 9:48:36 GMT
I've run a Thermo Top C for about 8 years, no issues with the unit. Sunday should see me fire up mouse Thermo Top Evo 5 that has replaced the C - supposed to be an improvement on the old unit, apparently it modulates output more efficiently and is happier with things like heater blower boxes. Greatest consideration when isntalling is pipe bore size - as chagall has already mentioned. You need 22mm flow and return loop, teeing rads etc to 15mm/1/2" where necessary. i have a few tricks for connecting to the boiler and calorifier, through bulkheads etc, ask away if in doubt. Another consideration is the fuel pump and pipework, frequently this is installed in a piss poor way which leads to issues with heater performance/reliability - again, ask away if in doubt. HTH. Gazza. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 10:11:03 GMT
How about a Wallas? I think @gazza has a Wallas but it might be a paraffin one not sure.
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Post by lollygagger on Dec 19, 2019 10:31:35 GMT
What model is your stove? I just fitted one with a back boiler that struggles even heating one towel rail. Just a Squirrel, does 3 radiators with thermostatic valves, calorifier and a 15mm pipe loop around the saloon, 50 ft narrowboat. Most of the time with fuel saver plates in. All gravity. Squirrel is rated 2kw to water, same as mine. The only difference I see is the location - Squirrel is in the roof of the stove where it doesn't cool the fire by direct contact, whereas mine is the whole rear wall. Mine's crap, yours sounds like what I need. Another problem I have is all the pipes are uninsulated and permanently boxed in. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 11:08:55 GMT
How about a Wallas? I think @gazza has a Wallas but it might be a paraffin one not sure. The Wallas is blown air not a wet system - good bit of kit mind  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 11:23:36 GMT
Oh yes of course.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 11:25:52 GMT
Speaking of diesel heaters I am finding the little refleks very good. 66m model. On my off grid canal boat.
They do a coil for these to heat water so I wonder if it could heat the calorifier if plumbed with a small pump.
I prefer to have two separate heating units ie a small wood burner and the refleks. that way you use no electric and have a choice of fuels. And no radiators. However hot water would be useful to be fair.
Of course the OP is on mains electric so it's less important.
On my big boat it just has a single multifeul in the middle of the boat and electric radiators to deal with cold spots. Works okay. That's on electric all the time.
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Post by carthorse on Dec 19, 2019 13:03:16 GMT
Thanks for the replies. I do have a solid fuel stove (a boatman which I’m very pleased with) that I fitted last winter, unfortunately the only place it would practically fit was at the far end of the saloon by the front doors. It heats the saloon and galley beautifully, but then the boat gets progressively colder with the back bedroom hardly getting any heat from it at all. This is in part due to the 3/4 width bulkhead at the end of the kitchen which seems very efficient at stopping the heat from the stove travelling down the boat.
I’m planning on fitting a couple of little 12v computer cooling fans in the roof of the passage down the side of the galley to see if this moves some of the nice warm air backwards, but the long term plan this spring and summer is to completely replumb the boat and refit the bathroom.
I’m hoping to move the Calorifier inside the cabin and run a new 22mm heating circuit round the boat with the radiators teed off in 15mm pipe. Looking at the comments so far it looks like Webasto might be the way to go for the heater, what I’m really looking for is a good blast of heat throughout the boat when I get back from a long night shift and the boats about 2’ deg inside.
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