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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 14:51:47 GMT
Well, my six t105's lasted just over three years. Waste of money (and energy looking after them). I'm not up for peeing about with lifepoos, so I think I'll try some agm batteries.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 13, 2020 15:34:21 GMT
Well, my six t105's lasted just over three years. Waste of money (and energy looking after them). I'm not up for peeing about with lifepoos, so I think I'll try some agm batteries. In what way have they died? Ours are now over 6 years old although of course we are not live aboard. So far they still retain original capacity. Have you tried desulphating yours?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 15:39:12 GMT
I've got Rolls batteries on the barge. 4000 series. 2 x 6v blocks. About 400ah. A small bank.
Initially I was charging them with a generator and a 130a charger which is quite high for 400ah bank but within the design specs of the batteries. Never fully charged as I reckoned batteries would be cheaper than diesel overall.
Killed them in about 18 months but the odd thing was one cell on each block was down to sg of about 1.05 almost plain water while the other 2 cells on each block were about 1.24 which is fairly healthy.
So I did a warranty claim as suspicion of warehouse damage and had two new blocks delivered under warranty. The replacements have been on mains electric with an old Truecharge 20i charger for the last 6 years and no problems.
Touch wood
Apparently the tall blocks can suffer from stratification if not subjected to an equalising charge on a regular basis. I think the Truecharge microprocessor looks after that.
That charger is something I will be keeping when I sell the boat. It's a really good piece of equipment.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 16:06:31 GMT
Well, my six t105's lasted just over three years. Waste of money (and energy looking after them). I'm not up for peeing about with lifepoos, so I think I'll try some agm batteries. In what way have they died? Ours are now over 6 years old although of course we are not live aboard. So far they still retain original capacity. Have you tried desulphating yours? Strict maintenance procedure with a victron multiplus, so I'm a bit surprised myself. The bulk standard 110s I last had installed did a three year stint. The trojans were charged daily, and at manufacturers recommended specs. Never really took them below 12.4. All a bit odd, and I'm not inclined to put another set in. I regularly equalize, but the capacity has halved, so I can only assume rocks have formed at the bottom of them. A bit disappointed really. All your fault, as I always credit you with knowledge on this stuff. ( really need to blame someone).
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 13, 2020 16:59:49 GMT
In what way have they died? Ours are now over 6 years old although of course we are not live aboard. So far they still retain original capacity. Have you tried desulphating yours? Strict maintenance procedure with a victron multiplus, so I'm a bit surprised myself. The bulk standard 110s I last had installed did a three year stint. The trojans were charged daily, and at manufacturers recommended specs. Never really took them below 12.4. All a bit odd, and I'm not inclined to put another set in. I regularly equalize, but the capacity has halved, so I can only assume rocks have formed at the bottom of them. A bit disappointed really. All your fault, as I always credit you with knowledge on this stuff. ( really need to blame someone). Have you checked the specific gravity of the cells? They should all be up at 1.277 (adjusted for temperature) when fully charged. The sg will be lower if there is sulphation. If the sg is up around the correct value but the capacity is down, it will be plate shedding. Plate shedding is irreversible but sulphation is reversible, given enough time. Maybe worth having a look before you shell out on new batteries. Never had bad sulphation with the Trojans but when we had ordinary leisure batteries, it was amazing how they could be down to half capacity after 6 months due to sulphation, but putting relatively few AH back in ( a couple of hours at 15.5v / 10A) would restore it all.
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Post by JohnV on Jan 13, 2020 17:01:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 17:04:45 GMT
Strict maintenance procedure with a victron multiplus, so I'm a bit surprised myself. The bulk standard 110s I last had installed did a three year stint. The trojans were charged daily, and at manufacturers recommended specs. Never really took them below 12.4. All a bit odd, and I'm not inclined to put another set in. I regularly equalize, but the capacity has halved, so I can only assume rocks have formed at the bottom of them. A bit disappointed really. All your fault, as I always credit you with knowledge on this stuff. ( really need to blame someone). Have you checked the specific gravity of the cells? They should all be up at 1.277 (adjusted for temperature) when fully charged. The sg will be lower if there is sulphation. If the sg is up around the correct value but the capacity is down, it will be plate shedding. Plate shedding is irreversible but sulphation is reversible, given enough time. Maybe worth having a look before you shell out on new batteries. Never had bad sulphation with the Trojans but when we had ordinary leisure batteries, it was amazing how they could be down to half capacity after 6 months due to sulphation, but putting relatively few AH back in ( a couple of hours at 15.5v / 10A) would restore it all. I checked the reading with a hydrometer this morning before turning on any power, the reading was between 1.250 and 1.270. I've not checked after a full charge yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 17:05:28 GMT
Refractometers are good toys for checking battery acid sg.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 13, 2020 17:29:24 GMT
Have you checked the specific gravity of the cells? They should all be up at 1.277 (adjusted for temperature) when fully charged. The sg will be lower if there is sulphation. If the sg is up around the correct value but the capacity is down, it will be plate shedding. Plate shedding is irreversible but sulphation is reversible, given enough time. Maybe worth having a look before you shell out on new batteries. Never had bad sulphation with the Trojans but when we had ordinary leisure batteries, it was amazing how they could be down to half capacity after 6 months due to sulphation, but putting relatively few AH back in ( a couple of hours at 15.5v / 10A) would restore it all. I checked the reading with a hydrometer this morning before turning on any power, the reading was between 1.250 and 1.270. I've not checked after a full charge yet. If all the cells are in that range, it seems odd that the batteries are that bad. How are you determining that they are down to 1/2 capacity? Maybe you should try discharging them down to 20% SoC or so (11.7v no load voltage) and then recharge. Our batteries held up well using AH counter vs Smartgauge, until getting down to the usual morning state of around 65 to 70%. On the few occasions that I discharged them further, the voltage (and hence the Smartgauge reading) dropped rapidly. Eventually I did a pretty major discharge to 20% and slowish recharge at 50A or so, now they are much better. I think they can get a bit lazy always cycling over the same fairly small range. If that fails, you could try beating them with a branch in the style of Basil Fawlty.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 17:38:59 GMT
I checked the reading with a hydrometer this morning before turning on any power, the reading was between 1.250 and 1.270. I've not checked after a full charge yet. If all the cells are in that range, it seems odd that the batteries are that bad. How are you determining that they are down to 1/2 capacity? Maybe you should try discharging them down to 20% SoC or so (11.7v no load voltage) and then recharge. Our batteries held up well using AH counter vs Smartgauge, until getting down to the usual morning state of around 65 to 70%. On the few occasions that I discharged them further, the voltage (and hence the Smartgauge reading) dropped rapidly. Eventually I did a pretty major discharge to 20% and slowish recharge at 50A or so, now they are much better. I think they can get a bit lazy always cycling over the same fairly small range. If that fails, you could try beating them with a branch in the style of Basil Fawlty. They are charging really quickly, but after about 2hrs, the multimeter says 6.12. Ok, I'll try dropping them to 20%.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 13, 2020 22:42:54 GMT
If all the cells are in that range, it seems odd that the batteries are that bad. How are you determining that they are down to 1/2 capacity? Maybe you should try discharging them down to 20% SoC or so (11.7v no load voltage) and then recharge. Our batteries held up well using AH counter vs Smartgauge, until getting down to the usual morning state of around 65 to 70%. On the few occasions that I discharged them further, the voltage (and hence the Smartgauge reading) dropped rapidly. Eventually I did a pretty major discharge to 20% and slowish recharge at 50A or so, now they are much better. I think they can get a bit lazy always cycling over the same fairly small range. If that fails, you could try beating them with a branch in the style of Basil Fawlty. They are charging really quickly, but after about 2hrs, the multimeter says 6.12. Ok, I'll try dropping them to 20%. How are you deciding they are fully charged?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 23:10:07 GMT
They are charging really quickly, but after about 2hrs, the multimeter says 6.12. Ok, I'll try dropping them to 20%. How are you deciding they are fully charged? When the victron stops charging them. Tail current about 3.3
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 23:16:36 GMT
Chatting to some on fb with newer trojans, they seem to be having similar issues. I'm wondering if cost cutting is responsible at manufacture, or even Chinese fakes are slipping into the market. Those with older ones (5 years) seem to be trundling along fine. All a bit odd.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 13, 2020 23:18:13 GMT
How are you deciding they are fully charged? When the victron stops charging them. Tail current about 3.3 Is the voltage up around 14.6 in summer and 14.8 in winter (or more) with the current at 3.3A? I ask because Victrons, if set to “adaptive charging”, are prone to going to float much too early. If you are charging from a generator it is better to disable float mode (by raising its voltage to be the same as absorption) so you decide when to stop charging, not the Victron. Or if that is too difficult, restart the charge when it goes to float (disconnect, then reconnect the generator) and if the charge current is fairly high again, you know it went to float much too early.
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Post by Telemachus on Jan 13, 2020 23:19:51 GMT
Chatting to some on fb with newer trojans, they seem to be having similar issues. I'm wondering if cost cutting is responsible at manufacture, or even Chinese fakes are slipping into the market. Those with older ones (5 years) seem to be trundling along fine. All a bit odd. Yea could be I suppose. A bit like Yuasa, which used to be really good and are now fairly crap. When our Trojans die, I’ll be going to LiFePO4.
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