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Post by brummieboy on Feb 18, 2020 19:04:11 GMT
The environmental lobby has also been successful in dissuading the authorities from dredging programmes. CaRT is certainly packed with staff who see the 'rights' of various creatures over and above the main raison d'etre of maintaining navigations. I recall some plans for the Thames flood relief in Berkshire being shelved a couple of years ago to 'protect' some mussel or other that wasn't even a native species. We have had the same protection for weed on the Wyrley and Essington, and what about the newts on the Montgomery? Where were they before it was rewatered?
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Post by Jim on Feb 18, 2020 19:38:12 GMT
The atmosphere is warming, warm air hold more water, this drops out in fiercer storms, hence what was classified as a "once in hundred years" seems to be "once in 5 years" if Tod, Hebden and Mytholmroyd are anything to go by. This means that EA and CRT need to do even more work, preventive maintenance etc. At figure of three the bywash on the far side of the second lock has gone. The river sweeps round a bend and overtops the bank between the two locks, dumping gravel in the small pound and into and below the second lock. Had the bywash been checked and maintained? If not did the flood lift out loose stones and then the scouring started. Once the gravel has been dredged it could be used to fill the void, fewer materials to be brought to site.
Boxing day 15 the river did the same thing, over topping the bank, but it only scoured out the towpath a bit and silted the canal. The mechanics of the flood flow around the area are obvious, not enough has been done since to make the locks and bywashes more flood resistant.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 19:55:21 GMT
Vic Jackson, last of the Fenland lightermen, contractor to the Nene River Board, the National Rivers Authority and more recently the Environmental Agency was asked to sit on a panel chaired by the EA and tasked with discussing dredging and whether there was actually any need for it, particularly from a flood alleviation point of view.
Vic sat and listened to all the bright young things fresh from university spouting forth on the control and management of a river they had barely seen. Much talk was made of computer modelling and analysis for flow rates and discharge capacity.
Vic knocked all that crap into the long grass with a request for a simple experiment to be carried out.
Take a length of 1' drainage pipe, measure the flow rate and discharge capacity of said pipe.
Next, 1/3 fill said pipe with concrete, repeat the experiment and report back your findings.
Apparently the silence was deafening!
Sadly not deafening enough, we now have lintels fitted to vee gates cocking up the rivers ability to stay on Weir and self regulate in the normal course of things.
Nothing at all to do with artificially raising the level to mask the desperate need for dredging.....
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Post by bodger on Feb 18, 2020 20:02:25 GMT
In many locations, including the Somerset Levels the clue is in the name - much of the land is below high tide levels and historically were wetlands. Dredging will only work if there is an adequate discharge into the sea, and this relies on pumping, discharging only when the tide is low, or a combination of both. If everything else is set up to discharge any flows that reach the coast then dredging will help, but in practice this is an ideal solution that is not sustainable. Much as the residents and farmers would wish otherwise, as the global sea levels rise and climate change produces more extreme rainfall events, this area will (I predict) be sacrificed to the sea, or at least to become a permanent wetland, simply because keeping them flood-free is unsustainable in terms of cost/benefit. EA propaganda, . . and not relevant to the present situation on our navigable rivers and river navigations ! The Dutch are rather good at coping successfully with situations such as you describe, . . why do we have to be so utterly helpless in the face of considerably less severe difficulties ? no...... the result of 45 years experience in civil engineering including several projects involving flood defences. ....... but perhaps you belong to the brigade that believes that the EA and other government departments are irresponsible, whatever they say and do.
the cost/benefits for the Dutch are significantly different to those relating to the Somerset Levels.
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 18, 2020 20:03:35 GMT
The atmosphere is warming, warm air hold more water, this drops out in fiercer storms, hence what was classified as a "once in hundred years" seems to be "once in 5 years" if Tod, Hebden and Mytholmroyd are anything to go by. This means that EA and CRT need to do even more work, preventive maintenance etc. At figure of three the bywash on the far side of the second lock has gone. The river sweeps round a bend and overtops the bank between the two locks, dumping gravel in the small pound and into and below the second lock. Had the bywash been checked and maintained? If not did the flood lift out loose stones and then the scouring started. Once the gravel has been dredged it could be used to fill the void, fewer materials to be brought to site. Boxing day 15 the river did the same thing, over topping the bank, but it only scoured out the towpath a bit and silted the canal. The mechanics of the flood flow around the area are obvious, not enough has been done since to make the locks and bywashes more flood resistant. People who build houses in steep valleys should get used to a bit of flooding now and then, and people who build houses on volcanoes should expect to get blown up once in a while.
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Post by Jim on Feb 18, 2020 20:07:03 GMT
The atmosphere is warming, warm air hold more water, this drops out in fiercer storms, hence what was classified as a "once in hundred years" seems to be "once in 5 years" if Tod, Hebden and Mytholmroyd are anything to go by. This means that EA and CRT need to do even more work, preventive maintenance etc. At figure of three the bywash on the far side of the second lock has gone. The river sweeps round a bend and overtops the bank between the two locks, dumping gravel in the small pound and into and below the second lock. Had the bywash been checked and maintained? If not did the flood lift out loose stones and then the scouring started. Once the gravel has been dredged it could be used to fill the void, fewer materials to be brought to site. Boxing day 15 the river did the same thing, over topping the bank, but it only scoured out the towpath a bit and silted the canal. The mechanics of the flood flow around the area are obvious, not enough has been done since to make the locks and bywashes more flood resistant. People who build houses in steep valleys should get used to a bit of flooding now and then, and people who build houses on volcanoes should expect to get blown up once in a while. ... And men who live near the Arctic better watch out their bollocks don't freeze.
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Post by bodger on Feb 18, 2020 20:09:23 GMT
I watched the local news tonight (ITV West).,,,, lots of folk wandering about disorientated in Tewkesbury, Lydney and the Wye valley, wondering what the government are doing to prevent floods. No-one asked them what they thought thew government should do.
We can't go on denying climate change and sea level rises for ever. In practical terms the only constructive thing the government can do is to pay compensation for people in the worst flood-prone areas, so they can move out and buy a house on higher ground.
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Post by naughtyfox on Feb 18, 2020 20:14:02 GMT
People who build houses in steep valleys should get used to a bit of flooding now and then, and people who build houses on volcanoes should expect to get blown up once in a while. ... And men who live near the Arctic better watch out their bollocks don't freeze. +7 Centigrade this afternoon - sun shining - just like April. +2 this morning at 0615 on my way to work. Winter hasn't come this year. This is what happens when Swedish schoolgirls meddle with the weather.
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Post by Jim on Feb 18, 2020 20:14:05 GMT
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Post by TonyDunkley on Feb 18, 2020 20:14:44 GMT
EA propaganda, . . and not relevant to the present situation on our navigable rivers and river navigations ! The Dutch are rather good at coping successfully with situations such as you describe, . . why do we have to be so utterly helpless in the face of considerably less severe difficulties ? no...... the result of 45 years experience in civil engineering including several projects involving flood defences. ....... but perhaps you belong to the brigade that believes that the EA and other government departments are irresponsible, whatever they say and do.
the cost/benefits for the Dutch are significantly different to those relating to the Somerset Levels.
I belong to the brigade that KNOWS that the EA and C&RT put together are considerably less use than Lord Lucan's passport ! The fact that you've been involved in the construction of some flood defences in the course of a career in civil engineering hardly qualifies you to hold an informed opinion on their effectiveness in comparison with dredging out siltation 'choke points' that otherwise impede a river's ability to get rid of excess water as quickly as possible.
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Post by Jim on Feb 18, 2020 20:15:10 GMT
... And men who live near the Arctic better watch out their bollocks don't freeze. +7 Centigrade this afternoon - sun shining - just like April. +2 this morning at 0615 on my way to work. Winter hasn't come this year. This is what happens when Swedish schoolgirls meddle with the weather. All that snow, no hills to go sledging. What a waste.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 20:17:06 GMT
the Thames flood relief in Berkshire being shelved a couple of years ago to 'protect' some mussel or other that wasn't even a native species Blimmin furrin species coming over here...tekkin our environment...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 20:19:44 GMT
I'm wondering when the humans will work out that all these animal species are actually the problem.
If you look at all the problems animals cause from obesity by eating them, viruses, deaths from elephant stampedes and shark attacks it's a wonder the humans have not taken them all out properly.
We will live to regret it.
Campaign For Destruction Of All Animal Species.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 20:20:59 GMT
The environmental lobby has also been successful in dissuading the authorities from dredging programmes. CaRT is certainly packed with staff who see the 'rights' of various creatures over and above the main raison d'etre of maintaining navigations. I recall some plans for the Thames flood relief in Berkshire being shelved a couple of years ago to 'protect' some mussel or other that wasn't even a native species. We have had the same protection for weed on the Wyrley and Essington, and what about the newts on the Montgomery? Where were they before it was rewatered? The Great Ouse suffered downstream shoaling at Godmanchester, Brampton and Castle Mills locks. Protecting wildlife was the primary reason given for not removing the shoaling - Castle Mills was the worse affected location, eventually the novelty of being stuck aground within spitting distance of the lock tail wore thin, heavy pressure on the EA resulted in the shoals being eventually removed. I'm guessing the wildlife they worry about are more resilient than they are given credit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 20:27:31 GMT
I don't know what the answer is.
Two opposing schools of thought in this thread alone.
We can't stop the rain, but simple logic suggests we can keep the water run-offs clear and open to full capacity, whether that's rivers, culverts, drainage ditches, or storm drains.
In my ignorance, that seems an obvious first step.
Rog
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