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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 20:45:08 GMT
I don't know what the answer is. Two opposing schools of thought in this thread alone. We can't stop the rain, but simple logic suggests we can keep the water run-offs clear and open to full capacity, whether that's rivers, culverts, drainage ditches, or storm drains. In my ignorance, that seems an obvious first step. Rog I'll give you another example of how failure to adhere to your first suggestion has far reaching consequences. In my old town a stream runs through a park, it's an open watercourse that is then culverted for a considerable distance to allow the building of a small retail area and alterations to the road to provide a two lane one way system, this road retains its original name - Duck Street, although you'd be hard pressed to find a duck or a drop of water in evidence! Many years later a swimming pool was built at about the lowest point of duck street, all the associated equipment was located in a basement in the new building. So far so good. The pool was a great success and very popular. Over time East Northants council became progressively more skint and decided to scale back it's expenditure on park and grounds maintenance, this included keeping the grate into the Duck Street culvert clear of litter and trash. Over time the culvert became blocked - it could cope with moderately heavy rain without issue, what it couldn't cope with was a sustained period of heavy rainfall. The inevitable happend - it pissed it down for days on end, and water being water it finds its own level - a level that turned out to be a fair bit higher than the pool equipment..... Upshot was a swimming pool closed for months on end and a repair bill of North of £1 million. A groundsman with a keb and a sack would have been a better way of spending our money....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 20:50:08 GMT
What about if someone spotted the inevitable in advance and was in a position to profit from it ?
Bit of a cynical view I suppose but keeping a man on the ground with a keb is not going to bring in money. Allowing a system to fail must surely be a profiteers paradise.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 21:11:33 GMT
What about if someone spotted the inevitable in advance and was in a position to profit from it ? Bit of a cynical view I suppose but keeping a man on the ground with a keb is not going to bring in money. Allowing a system to fail must surely be a profiteers paradise. Sadly that's the sort of shortsighted selfish view that ensures the race to the bottom means a poorer outcome for everyone else - bar for the twat pocketing the tax payers money....
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Post by TonyDunkley on Feb 18, 2020 21:15:29 GMT
Vic Jackson, last of the Fenland lightermen, contractor to the Nene River Board, the National Rivers Authority and more recently the Environmental Agency . . . . . . . . . . . Was Vic Jackson related to or one of the Jacksons who had a yard at Peterborough ? Back in the days when the majority of pleasure craft were either knackered ex-Broads hire cruisers or converted ship's lifeboats the main source of lifeboat hulls was Jacksons at Peterborough. They bought up out of service ships lifeboats from ship breakers all over the UK, transported them by road to Peterborough, and sold them on from there to boatyards and private individuals for conversion into pleasure craft.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 21:35:49 GMT
Vic Jackson, last of the Fenland lightermen, contractor to the Nene River Board, the National Rivers Authority and more recently the Environmental Agency . . . . . . . . . . . Was Vic Jackson related to or one of the Jacksons who had a yard at Peterborough ? Back in the days when the majority of pleasure craft were either knackered ex-Broads hire cruisers or converted ship's lifeboats the main source of lifeboat hulls was Jacksons at Peterborough. They bought up out of service ships lifeboats from ship breakers all over the UK, transported them by road to Peterborough, and sold them on from there to boatyards and private individuals for conversion into pleasure craft. Yes, Jackson's are still going at Stanground.
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Post by bodger on Feb 18, 2020 22:26:59 GMT
no...... the result of 45 years experience in civil engineering including several projects involving flood defences. ....... but perhaps you belong to the brigade that believes that the EA and other government departments are irresponsible, whatever they say and do.
the cost/benefits for the Dutch are significantly different to those relating to the Somerset Levels.
I belong to the brigade that KNOWS that the EA and C&RT put together are considerably less use than Lord Lucan's passport ! The fact that you've been involved in the construction of some flood defences in the course of a career in civil engineering hardly qualifies you to hold an informed opinion on their effectiveness in comparison with dredging out siltation 'choke points' that otherwise impede a river's ability to get rid of excess water as quickly as possible. Kindly refrain from misquoting me.
I have not been 'involved in the construction of some flood defences'. I have been involved in studies, assessing design proposals and advising clients in several countries that experience flash floods and freak events.
I don't think you know anything specific about EA's or CRT's usefulness or lack thereof in this respect. What specialist training, knowledge and experience do you have in matters of flood defences relevant to the Somerset Levels other than the popular non-technical opinion that more dredging must be a good thing?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 22:36:07 GMT
I belong to the brigade that KNOWS that the EA and C&RT put together are considerably less use than Lord Lucan's passport ! The fact that you've been involved in the construction of some flood defences in the course of a career in civil engineering hardly qualifies you to hold an informed opinion on their effectiveness in comparison with dredging out siltation 'choke points' that otherwise impede a river's ability to get rid of excess water as quickly as possible. Kindly refrain from misquoting me.
I have not been 'involved in the construction of some flood defences'. I have been involved in studies, assessing design proposals and advising clients in several countries that experience flash floods and freak events.
I don't think you know anything specific about EA's or CRT's usefulness or lack thereof in this respect. What specialist training, knowledge and experience do you have in matters of flood defences relevant to the Somerset Levels other than the popular non-technical opinion that more dredging must be a good thing?
Ah, computer design modeling. What a load of crap. The fact is, eight miles of the Somerset levels were dredged a few years back, and the successful results have proven the need for regular dredging. Here's a rather simple computer modeling design for you
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 23:00:56 GMT
Its an evocative image. Anyway, that the rivers in the Somerset levels require further dredging does not appear to be in question. But, to remake an earlier point, the issue is funding. www.gov.uk/government/publications/somerset-levels-and-moors-reducing-the-risk-of-flooding/somerset-levels-and-moors-reducing-the-risk-of-floodingAlso, bearing in mind the levels have experienced the most-severe flood event in recent times in the UK, and there is no cash available to carry out the work that the government accepts is needed, what hope is there for the Severn or Calder valley, both of which are most flood-prone? One other point - ask yourself if localised flooding is, in your opinion, the most important urgent issue facing the country at present.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2020 23:24:14 GMT
Anyway, I'm of the opinion that climate change occurs because of changes in the earth’s solar orbit, and not because of SUVs and fossil fuels. Storm drains are the answer, and a damned sight more use than token flood defences.
Just don't put CRT or the EA in charge of building the bloody things. (Nor bodger for that matter).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 8:07:30 GMT
Anyway, I'm of the opinion that climate change occurs because of changes in the earth’s solar orbit, and not because of SUVs and fossil fuels. I think the way forward is to recognise that climate change is due to nature AND us burning fossil fuels (unless someone can explain how burning fossil fuels doesn't add to the problem).
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Post by JohnV on Feb 19, 2020 8:42:39 GMT
^^^^^
I think that is the point ...... we don't know
before the "we're going to burn up" group got into full swing the "were going to freeze to death" group were crying that we were heading for an ice age.
The truth ? we don't know, it's too complicated ........ is the increased CO2 in the atmosphere causing climate change ? probably Is it making the cooling/warming worse/better ? God alone knows
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Post by Jim on Feb 19, 2020 8:55:17 GMT
Anyway, I'm of the opinion that climate change occurs because of changes in the earth’s solar orbit, and not because of SUVs and fossil fuels. Storm drains are the answer, and a damned sight more use than token flood defences. Just don't put CRT or the EA in charge of building the bloody things. (Nor bodger for that matter). Evidence of change in solar orbit? Or you are just spouting pseudo science.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 9:09:12 GMT
^^^^^ I think that is the point ...... we don't know before the "we're going to burn up" group got into full swing the "were going to freeze to death" group were crying that we were heading for an ice age. The truth ? we don't know, it's too complicated ........ is the increased CO2 in the atmosphere causing climate change ? probably Is it making the cooling/warming worse/better ? God alone knows I'm certainly no expert on the subject but I think nature up to now has coped very well compensating for her knocks. The particles chucked out into the atmosphere trap heat in, but the same particles also block radiation from the sun (cooling). I would imagine the problems for us start when that balancing mechanism breaks down and too much or too little heat is trapped in over large expanses of populated land. In fact we are already seeing problems. It's not just about our direct vulnerability to extreme temperature either. Subsequent floods and droughts are already causing problems all over the world. Also, as all this affects species at all ends of the food chain, starvation is another factor. I wonder whether humans are just part of Mother Earths nature, or are we an alien virus which needs to be burnt off in the same way our body increases body temperature when we have flu? Have a nice day!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 9:14:26 GMT
Anyway, I'm of the opinion that climate change occurs because of changes in the earth’s solar orbit, and not because of SUVs and fossil fuels. Storm drains are the answer, and a damned sight more use than token flood defences. Just don't put CRT or the EA in charge of building the bloody things. (Nor bodger for that matter). Evidence of change in solar orbit? Or you are just spouting pseudo science. There's plenty of evidence, google it, rather than trying to undermine my view and score points. Phuckin muppet.
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Post by JohnV on Feb 19, 2020 9:16:18 GMT
Kindly refrain from misquoting me.
I have not been 'involved in the construction of some flood defences'. I have been involved in studies, assessing design proposals and advising clients in several countries that experience flash floods and freak events.
I don't think you know anything specific about EA's or CRT's usefulness or lack thereof in this respect. What specialist training, knowledge and experience do you have in matters of flood defences relevant to the Somerset Levels other than the popular non-technical opinion that more dredging must be a good thing?
Ah, computer design modeling. What a load of crap. The fact is, eight miles of the Somerset levels were dredged a few years back, and the successful results have proven the need for regular dredging. Here's a rather simple computer modeling design for you The river Hull at Beverley is not a big river but at Beverley there was a shipyard building large trawlers and small coasters 25630141923_370f38c8d7_o (1) by mudlarker2, on Flickr as you can see .... not little boats and not just the occasional one either I was told that when the river was in spate it used to run past here like an express train . Nowadays the river is heavily silted and with large reed beds, it is not a particularly easy trip for Sabina and she is only a third (or less) the size of the boats that used to come up here SAM_2576 by mudlarker2, on Flickr SAM_2581 by mudlarker2, on Flickr Of course this does not cause the water to back up and produce record height flooding (and heaven help us, because of flooding further upstream on the dykes and surrounding land, they are going to improve the drainage pumps ........... which are going to discharge where ? ..... you guessed it .... into the river) This is why I have decided to build a permanent raised walkway and jetty for my boat as I have barely seen the quay for over three months. SAM_2723 by mudlarker2, on Flickr what it should be like SAM_2714-0012 by mudlarker2, on Flickr
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